The Church Walking With the World

[aragtaghooligan]

We can't love God until we know he loves us and how will we ever know that if all we hear is that he hates our sin?

[Eleventh Doctor]

As I've said many times, I don't think God hates sin. I think it does separate us from God and make a relationship with Him harder, so the purpose of talking about sin is not to judge or hate others but to better love God.

[Miss Friendship]

As I've said many times, I don't think God hates sin. I think it does separate us from God and make a relationship with Him harder, so the purpose of talking about sin is not to judge or hate others but to better love God.

Why should we not sin then, Eleventh?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Because our sins separate us from God

[Miss Friendship]

Why does sin separate us from God?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Because it is not how we would act if we were obeying God perfectly.

[Miss Friendship]

But God is all about love. There is no hate in him you say, so we can sin, because he is sure to love us anyway.

Why, if God is only love, does He have Hell? Isn't that extreme if He doesn't really hate workers of iniquity?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Sin keeps us from loving God back and experiencing His love as love and not hate.

[DredgeAmazing]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

God saved us. We are saved sin or not. We put sin to death because the more we grow with God the more we realize his way is better but we shouldn't have to live in stress about whether or not we are narrow path walking right.

This is foolishness. If we are going to ignore sin period, then we simply haven't accepted Jesus' invitation to accept how He put sin to death.
"On this rock I shall build my church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."

[Eleventh Doctor]

Ragtag isn't saying ignore sin, I think we're really not communicating well with each other.

[aragtaghooligan]

I am sorry for not communicating well. I will try to explain myself better, but I warn you this means this post will be a bit long and for that I apologize. I am not the smartest or most articulate being. I am sorry. I am trying. If you would rather I simply not participate in your conversations, just let me know.

I do not believe we should ignore sin. I believe that sin is naturally dangerous. Some sins, like addiction, we can very clearly see how it has naturally negative consequences, but with other sins it is harder to tell. I believe if something is truly a sin it has natural negative consequences either right now, later in life, or eternally. These could be physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, or other for us, someone else, or for multiple people. For these reasons I believe it is important not to sin.

However, I believe it is often hard not to sin while we are still humans living with free will in a fallen world. We need God's help to strengthen our faith so we can trust Him when He says don't do this or that and to strengthen our will so we can choose again and again to obey. Because of that, I understand the Christian focus on sin. Sin is unhealthy and yet attractive and easy to fall into so it makes sense to constantly be warning one another against it.

However, I also believe this focus on sin can be dangerous. It can easily breed pride in those who think they know what a certain sin is and have managed to abstain from it and are attempting to help people who struggle with that. For example: I am not an alcoholic, I believe the Bible warns against alcoholism, I understand the dangers of it, and so I promote safe and limited alcoholic consumption. However, because I am not an alcoholic I could easily become prideful adopting an attitude of "I have succeeded in not being addicted so why can't you just understand that this is wrong and simply stop?" In my mind I will think "I understand the dangers, and I am just warning those I love." But my alcoholic friends may only hear "I am better than you, you suck, why can't you get your life together."

God loves us, out of love He warns us against sin, when we experience His love we trust Him, when we trust Him we obey Him. If we do not yet trust Him enough to obey Him the worst thing that could happen is for us to be driven away from him by misinterpreting the warning of one of His followers as a judgment and hatred of us.

Ok, I get it you don't want to support someones sinful life style and you don't want to encourage them to ignore that danger but I think the place to start is to get them aware of HOW MUCH they are loved. When they get that and they trust God they can move forward in obeying Him but taking these things out of their order is really dangerous.

[Miss Friendship]

Ragtag, never leave the debates. You contribute a great deal and you aren't the only one who has trouble communicating your thoughts correctly.

Actually, I agreed with everything you said here. I am sorry for getting a wrong impression of how you viewed sin.

[TigerShadow]

^Agreed. I'm sorry for where I misinterpreted as well.

I guess a lot of the reason why we tend to focus on sins ("we" meaning Christians) is that, simply put, those are the kinds of conversations people usually start, asking for advice on whether or not we think this or that is sinful or what Scripture says about certain subjects. It's not that we don't think God's love is greater than our sin or that we should prioritize condemnation over sharing the love of Jesus Christ; it's that Christians are people, and when people are sharing their opinions and interpretations, they tend to view those discussions in a vacuum and don't always see the sum total of what their words are saying. (I also think that humans as a whole tend to accentuate the negative; it's a lot easier to complain and see what's wrong with the world than it is to look on the bright side at what God has done for us.)

[Blitz]

But also reminding people of their sin is still a part of coming to Christ. What is the point of a Savior unless there is sin. Sin cannot be complete left out.

I agree. It is way to easy to become hypocritical about sin. Many Christians tend to be way to negative about sin.

[DredgeAmazing]

As I've said many times, I don't think God hates sin. I think it does separate us from God and make a relationship with Him harder, so the purpose of talking about sin is not to judge or hate others but to better love God.

The LORD despises feet that run toward evil, so why wouldn't He despise what those feet are running to?

[Eleventh Doctor]

If you think God is hate there's not much I can say to convince you otherwise.

[Miss Friendship]

Saying God despises sin and concluding God is now hate is a huge assumption and not the same thing at all.

[Mr. Yorp]

A new question: Is being married, loving the world to much?
I ask because I came across this verse:
1 Cor 7:33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

[Miss Friendship]

It certainly could become that. But I understand that verse to mean that a husband has to look out for physical needs, the necessities of life, as a responsibility to his wife, more so than if he were unmarried.