Is it wrong for women to wear pants?

[Metal15]

Haha,PF, does it hurt you to agree with me?

Maybe sometimes...

[John Henry]

Why does that fake guy say this phrase "Women wearing pants is SIN!"

[SirWhit]

Why does this real guy insist on making a big deal over long hair. Honestly, and I hate to be rude, suck it up. His hair isn't the exact length to the centimeter that you think is the limit and you're all over him.

And he didn't even say that. I looked through the whole thread and I don't think he's even posted in it.

[John Henry]

No, the fake guy was of all people: David J. Stewart.

[SirWhit]

My apologies. Since metal15 has just posted, I assumed it was him you were talking about since you had previously questioned his masculinity.

[John Henry]

Where did Aaron Wiley get the book of Abner or 2 James? They're not even in the Pseudepigrapha! Yes, I don't want to argue here, but I wonder what the world would be if the clothing switches - men wearing pink dresses & tutus, etc. while women wear army pants and blue jeans, and regular pants, etc. Yes, you're going to refer to tassels & robes. You're going to say I'm one word: legalist or legalistic. I don't want to argue anymore.

Personally, I think it's all right for men to wear robes. Also, pants inside a woman's skirt or dress (if they wear any) in the winter is OK...no, I don't want an argument.

Because my heat can arise and begin to burn again, and then I could start harrasing people again. (like using 20 very mad smileys). - hope I'm not blackmailing or something.

[SirWhit]

You still haven't convinced anyone that wearing pants is not ok.

[Eleventh Doctor]

John Henry: I think the world would be largely unchanged if fashion changed, like it often does over the course of thousand of years. I mean you still haven't answered the fundamental question being asked, who decides what is female and male clothing? Obviously not the culture of the Old Testament since you aren't advocating everyone wear robes with tassels on them. And obviously not the current culture since current culture says pants can be female clothing as well, so how do you decide what is male and female clothing?

You really must answer this question in a straightforward way, no avoiding the question by saying it will make you too angry or you'll say mean things, or other will call you legalistic, and no pasting a wall of text from someone else. Tell me how you personally decide what clothing is male and which is female. And do it in a calm and clear way, this is how people have mature discussions. So give me a simply one paragraph answer to the question, how do you decide what is male and female clothing? Do this before posting anything else, this is necessary if you want to have adult discussions.

[gabbygirl17]

God's standard for dress, Genesis 3:21 "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them."

Deut. 22:5 "A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this."

Job 30:18-In his great power God becomes like clothing to me; he binds me like the neck of my garment.

Exodus 28:42- "Make linen undergarments as a covering for the body, reaching from the waist to the thigh.

Isaiah 47:2-3- Take millstones and grind meal;
remove your veil,
strip off your skirt, bare your thigh,
wade through the streams.
3 Your nakedness will be uncovered,
and your shame will be exposed.
I will take vengeance;
I will spare no one.

Revelation 21:8- But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

1 Timothy 2:9-10- I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

1 Peter 3:3-4- Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. 4 Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight.

So I copied what was in his Bible

But PLEASE PLEASE DON"T think I am condemning anyone or anything!! I'm just stating my Opinion

[TigerShadow]

To me, though, that doesn't really answer the question. The question is "what defines gender-specific clothing?", not whether or not there are references to how we should dress in the Bible.

[Blitz]

Revelation 21:8, Isaiah 47:2-3 exactly what do these to verse have to do with this?

[John Henry]

Personally, I do not believe a woman can wear pants 'cause there can be a confusion among the sexes. Yes, trousers were worn by women in ancient times, but about the time of "Christianization" in the western world - it was stopped (In the Western World). Very few European Women ever wore pants e.g. Mary Read. Then, in about 1879 a fashion-designer started to make pants for women - by influence of Eastern culture. Now, I'm no longer against the Chinese or Arab women of long time ago wearing trousers as long as it was not crossdressing. If pants are for women, while skirts for men - yes. But, pants for both man and woman in the same culture? - no, I think not. In about 1923, one of the women's rights activists (no, I'm not against women voting at all. I believe that she DEFINITLY CAN vote) challenged men by wearing pants. Also, women doing men's job wore men's clothes (women wearing armor (which was restricted to men in ancient times) was the abomination mentioned in Deuteronomy 22:5). Also, certain actresses wore men's clothes. By about the 1970s it became fashionable for women to wear pants - men's clothes. However still, women were not allowed to wear pants in a certain place (I cannot remember the place's name). However, the first person to stand in that place wearing pants was Hilary Clinton (feminist). Now, you say that pants can be both for men and women, and you will ask me if I wear robes or tassels and that they are skirts. Yes, they are. I believe that men can wear those type of "skirts" in our modern days. However, in our modern days, women wear men's business suits, men's blue jeans, and maybe even men's army suit. In Korea, it was quite uncommon for women to dress in trousers as an outer clothing in long time ago (e.g. Joseon Dynasty). You'll probably say that men wore skirts in ancient times, and that there was hardly any difference. There was difference enough so that there wouldn't be any confounding.

Female dress. The “coat” was common to both sexes (Son_5:3). But peculiar to females were
(1.) the “veil” or “wimple,” a kind of shawl (Rth_3:15; rendered “mantle,” R.V., Isa_3:22);
(2.) the “mantle,” also a species of shawl (Isa_3:22);
(3.) a “veil,” probably a light summer dress (Gen_24:65);
(4.) a “stomacher,” a holiday dress (Isa_3:24). The outer garment terminated in an ample fringe or border, which concealed the feet (Isa_47:2; Jer_13:22).

- Easton's Bible Dictionary.

The dress of the women differed from that of the men in regard to the outer garment, the inner garment being worn equally by both sexes. Son_5:3. Among their distinctive robes we find a kind of shawl, Rth_3:15; Isa_3:22, light summer dresses of handsome appearance and ample dimensions, and gay holiday dresses. Isa_3:24. The garments of females were terminated by an ample border of fringe (skirts, Authorized Version), which concealed the feet. Isa_47:2; Jer_13:22.

- Smith's Bible Dictionary. Then, you'll ask why I rely on ONE verse which is in the OLD TESTAMENT. But, crossdressing is an Abomination to God. And God does not change. Other things that are abomination to God include homosexuality, all manner of deceit and falsehood and lies, and pride. Also, you'll say I'm soooo legalistic. I'd think it's better to be too strict than to be too careless. Note: I do have a bad habit with rules. I at times, emphasize rules too much. The Bible is no rule-Book. It's not about rules, about our Lord. I do not condemn anybody. I simply believe what I wrote. How can I a contemptible human - a youngster - decide who's going to heaven, and whose not? It is GOD who decides. You may object, but I have simply laid out what I believe, not who's going which place - only God can decide. I do not tell you to do anything. It is between you and God. Not me. I'm not God. So don't say I condemn anybody just because I disagree with them. Yes, you'll disagree with me. But, this is just an outline, not a decision or destiny.

[Samantha14]

Not that I'm getting into this again, but I'm very proud of you JH, for posting a full, civilized argument, lacking in both harsh judgement and condemning phrases. I must applaud this; you're getting better. Keep up the good work. (:

Not that I don't disagree with a lot of what you said but we will agree to disagree, mainly because I have no interest in pursueing this topic when I'm a minor feminist myself. Not entirely, but I do believe in independence and rights. (I'm not a men hater though. On the contrary; I find them quite endearing. *cough* anyways.)

[Eleventh Doctor]

JH that was a very thorough and thought out piece. It added a great deal to this discussion and you made it quite clear exactly what and why you believe what you do, good job.

I can see where you're coming from even if I disagree, your point that pants must be for one gender and skirts for the other, but picking pre-1879 as the rule for modern fashion confuses me. What biblical reason is there for picking that specific time? Also, when Asian and Middle Eastern women wore pants I'm sure they didn't stop wearing dresses all together.

As you mentioned, during Bible times both genders did wear the same inner garment; how was that not crossdressing? Using your definition above.

[John Henry]

Because you can see outward clothes.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Okay so is your standard for modesty that women wear two layers?

Also you didn't answer one of my questions, why do you pick post New Testament pre-1870 clothing as the standard for today? I mean you're pretty much saying Western fashion after robes but before pants should be the universal standard for everyone, why?

[John Henry]

It depends on the culture, but the modern cultures of skirts & pants are about everywhere.

[Eleventh Doctor]

True they are everywhere and the culture is that women can wear pants or skirts.

[John Henry]

What are men's clothes then?
(calmly)

[Eleventh Doctor]

Pants, kilts, robes, there are plenty of men's clothes. There is some overlap sure but even our current culture distinguishes between male and female fashion.