Eastern Orthodox Q&A

[Striped Leopard]

I suppose...

I would say that it's only Jesus' perfect life that allows us to have any standing before God--not our willingness to choose to let God make us "gods." Do you have a biblical reference for where we are called "gods"?

I also would take issue with Lewis's statement that we will have boundless power as God does. I don't see evidence that we will be omnipotent in our glorified state.

[Eleventh Doctor]

There's Biblical support for this

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature.

Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

I would say that it's only Jesus' perfect life that allows us to have any standing before God--not our willingness to choose to let God make us "gods."

I think this disagreement stems from our disagreement about free will not our disagreement about Theosis.

[Striped Leopard]

The verse says that Jesus' divine power gives us everything we need for life and godliness. It doesn't say anything about us getting divine power. But, I do agree, that this verse is support that we will share in the divine nature of Christ in some sense, because we are in union with Him. At the same time, though, I think the language of "go" is quite strong--especially when you say something like "man may become God." That sets off alarms for me no matter how you put it. I understand that we may become like God, partakers of the divine nature, sharing in all of Christ's privileges, but not actually becoming divine and worthy of worship ourselves...

To some extent, yes, this is a disagreement about free will, but that wasn't really my emphasis. Yes, we are to be perfect as the Father is perfect. But we do not attain to that ourselves; only through trusting in Christ can we be perfect, as a result of God seeing us through His perfection. Whether or not this is a result of our free will, the point stands that we don't become perfect in and of ourselves. Neither do we become God.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I never said we would be worshiped, that's not going to happen, but we will become perfect, not appear perfect but actually be perfect. Otherwise as Lewis said these commands are impossible and just idealistic gas. And to me that means we become God, I think it's a matter of interpretation and you have a different interpretation but this is how the Early Church Fathers, and the Reformers, and C.S. Lewis interpreted them and how I will continue to interpret these passages.

[John Henry]

Does the Eastern Orthodox Priests wear robes? If so, do they have something different from other robes - I mean, are they any different from robes of Catholic Priests or Lutheran Ministers. I hope I haven't annoyed you.

[Eleventh Doctor]

No annoyance at all, that's a great question.

There are several different robes and adornment that Orthodoxy clergy use. The most basic is the cassock.

All Orthodox clergy wear this, then for services they will wear vestments over their cassock.

These are the vestments of an Orthodox subdeacon, the colors will change depending on the time of year. Green would be for around the time of Pentecost.


An Orthodox deacon would wear very similar vestments except that the sash would be undone at the front and worn over the right arm.


An Orthodox priest wears the vestments of the Orthodox deacon with some extra parts.


An Orthodox bishop will have the most vestments and wear a crown as well.


Orthodox monks wear robes similar to a cassock


Orthodox nuns wear similar black robes with a head covering or habit.

As for how these compare to Lutheran and Catholic vestments, I have no idea having not been around Lutheran or Catholic clergy before.

[John Henry]

Vey interesting. I've seen a photo of an Orthodox Emporer & a Pope John Paul II meet together. What does the Emporer do?

[Eleventh Doctor]

We don't have an Emperor, could you maybe mean the Eccumenical Patriarch?

[John Henry]

Maybe. The person I'm talking about is the head of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

[Eleventh Doctor]

There is no head of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Each country should have a synod or group of bishops who oversee that country. These synods are in communion with each other and share a common faith but there is no one bishop who is the head of our Church. There is the Eccumenical Patriarch who is the bishop of Constantinople and is seen as the first amongst equals but doesn't have the universal jurisdiction or authority the Pope does in Roman Catholicism, he acts as the arbitrator if there is a conflict between synods but is not the head of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

[John Henry]

How come Bishops wear crowns?

-- Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:36 am --

How come Bishops wear crowns?

[Eleventh Doctor]

It's a symbol of their authority in the church as ministers of God.

[HomeschoolCowgirl]

An Orthodox priest wears the vestments of the Orthodox deacon with some extra parts.


An Orthodox bishop will have the most vestments and wear a crown as well.

Looks like you would get very hot in one of those!

[Eleventh Doctor]

They can and do

[Tea Ess]

Thank you for sharing that information, Doctor. That was very interesting.

Also,

They can and do

[Bethany Shepard]

I've really enjoyed reading over this topic.

It's a symbol of their authority in the church as ministers of God.

Why, pray tell, do your clergy wear robe? Is that how you are similar to Catholic?

[John Henry]

No one in the RCC (Roman Catholic Church) wears any crowns except for the pope.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Bethany, these vestments come from a time when the Catholic and Orthodox Church were one. The purpose of the vestments is spiritual, it serves to create an atmosphere inside the church of being in the Kingdom of God and to focus us on our participation. It also sets apart those who wear the vestments as being ministers of God who are performing a specific duty as part of the Kingdom. Equally important as our clergy are serving at the altar of God their clothes should be special since they are performing a special service, just like you wouldn't wear any old clothes to meet a head of state we believe our clergy should dress special when serving at God's altar.

[Bethany Shepard]

It does make since. Is there a specific reason why it has to be that style or color vestments?

Do you enjoy the classic traditions of your Church?

(I'm not here to debate. I have a true curiosity of the traditions, history and beliefs of Eastern Orthodox.)

[Eleventh Doctor]

The colors are for different feasts in the church. So during Lent the vestments are purple or other dark colors as Lent is a time for somber reflection and penance. Then during our Easter or Pascha service the clergy change their vestments during the service to white to represent the resurrection of Christ.

As for the style they are traditionally what has been worn, there are meaning for each piece but I don't know enough to explain it in any detail.

I really do enjoy the traditions of Orthodoxy, for me it focuses everything on worship of God in a communal way. So during Lent we are fasting together and when we go to church the clergy and the church use dark colors to keep us in the mind set. It also connects us to the church of the past that did these things too and the church of the future that will continue these traditions.