Crossdressing

[Spoon]

Do we go by what society defines as men and women's clothing?

Why is it more absurd to think of a man wearing 'women's' clothing than a woman wearing 'men's' clothing?

Is it specifically *sinful* to wear the other gender's 'clothing'?

[John Henry]

Do we go by what society defines as men and women's clothing?

Why is it more absurd to think of a man wearing 'women's' clothing than a woman wearing 'men's' clothing?

Is it specifically *sinful* to wear the other gender's 'clothing'?

Deuteronomy 22:5 tell us. Even though it is an OT law - yet it is a moral law not a ceremonial law. It is telling us what God hates. Even if a woman wearing pants was OK. I wouldn't wear a woman's brazier, sweater, tutu(grrr...ERK), skirt, dress(especially if it's pink), stockings, or shirt - not I for one.

[Eleventh Doctor]

So are sweaters and shirts women's clothing?

[Spoon]

John Henry -

Do we go by what society defines as men and women's clothing?

Is it specifically *sinful* to wear the other gender's 'clothing'?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Also according to Wikipedia the first cited use of trousers was by both genders: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers#cite_note-8

[TigerShadow]

Even though it is an OT law - yet it is a moral law not a ceremonial law.

Yet information that I have already cited states that the verse not only discusses "that which pertaineth to a man" actually means, essentially, a warrior's garment, but also that the verse is surrounded by ceremonial law, therefore making it highly likely that that verse is ceremonial law itself. (Source: http://www.actseighteen.com/articles/women-pants.htm) Care to give us any scholarly sources as to that verse being moral and not ceremonial?

[John Henry]

So are sweaters and shirts women's clothing?

No - but do you want me to wear my mother's shirt?

[Spoon]

Nobody is telling you to wear what you don't want to wear.

Do we go by what society defines as men and women's clothing?

Is it specifically *sinful* to wear the other gender's 'clothing'?

[Samantha14]

I wear my Dad's shirts all the time. they're big and baggy and comfy to sleep in.

When the Bible talks about "cross dressing" and "making yourself In the appearance of" I never really followed what most people interpret it as. That's where the whole pants thing came into play, really. Okay, maybe men wore pants first, maybe not. But that doesn't mean they're manly. I'm sure, in the bible, there were certain colors and ways of dressing that were specified as male, and same for women. I'm sure it was a law-based tradition. But think about this; in the Bible, both men and women wore dresses/robes. It's just what they had. Now we have an array of styles that are neutral gender, and separated. I will agree that there are some things that are gender specific -- I wouldn't want to see a guy in a pink, lacy dress. But I don't think pants are one of those gender specific things. Mainly because most women don't wear pants to appear manly. On the contrary, women pants look very feminine. I wear pants all the time, but I wear shirts and accessories, etc, that make me look like a girl.
That's the point I'm making. I don't believe these verses are talking about pants and such, as much as a heart and mind set. Girls can cut their hair super short, wear basket ball shorts, abd t-shirts. But as long as they aren't specifically *trying* to look like, or make people think they're a boy, then clothes are clothes. Guys can wear pink, and even wear jewelry, and flowers, as funny as it sounds. But as long as they aren't specifically *trying* to basically become a woman, then again, clothes are clothes. I'm going to keep wearing pants, and shorts, and my daddy's t-shirts. I'm perfectly okay with them, in my feminity.

Note: some things are cut specifically to gender and should not be attempted to be worn. Mainly cause guys look really awkward in girls tshirts. XD

[John Henry]

I'm a Tutu-Hater. Yes, Samantha14 you're in the ERK - that's why you approve of such perverse things.
Tiger, do you keep the Sabbath?

[Samantha14]

OhmygashJHgetovertheTuTus. =p Its a jooooke. And what is perverse about what I said? Tell me, with a legit reasoned answer. I do not appreciate being assumed as a pervert.

[John Henry]

You want me to wear a brazier?
Also, Tiger - your source mentions Adam Clarke who says

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man - כלי גבר keli geber, the instruments or arms of a man. As the word גבר geber is here used, which properly signifies a strong man or man of war, it is very probable that armor is here intended; especially as we know that in the worship of Venus, to which that of Astarte or Ashtaroth among the Canaanites bore a striking resemblance, the women were accustomed to appear in armor before her. It certainly cannot mean a simple change in dress, whereby the men might pass for women, and vice versa. This would have been impossible in those countries where the dress of the sexes had but little to distinguish it, and where every man wore a long beard. It is, however, a very good general precept understood literally, and applies particularly to those countries where the dress alone distinguishes between the male and the female. The close-shaved gentleman may at any time appear like a woman in the female dress, and the woman appear as a man in the male’s attire. Were this to be tolerated in society, it would produce the greatest confusion. Clodius, who dressed himself like a woman that he might mingle with the Roman ladies in the feast of the Bona Dea, was universally execrated.

[Samantha14]

Did I say I want you to wear a Brazier? no, I did not. and I don't appreciate any of your assumptions. You're going to have to give better reason than that.

[John Henry]

I don't think crossdressing should be allowed - it would cause confusion. Also, I know the robes were for men & women, but not pants - also, 11 I see no place in the Wikipedia which says that.
Maybe, you guys approve of transgender - or crossgender .

[Samantha14]

WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF CROSS DRESSING JOHN HENRY??? That was my entire point and you ignored it. Did you even read what I said?

[John Henry]

Men dressing what was originally intended for a woman. Likewise the woman dressing what was intented for men.

[Samantha14]

..........................................................................................................................................................

WELL THEN.

So in you're opinion, pants on women ARE a sin and women should just keep wearing dresses even though men wore them at one time too?

[John Henry]

What would she wear then? ARMOR? Even Jason Young forbids that. Yeah, imagine a woman wearing a armor suit + pants, men's clothes, men's hat, men's shoes, and acting like a man. Also, a man acting like a woman, wearing a woman's brazier, skirt or dress or tutu, hat, shoes. One word: perverse.

[Samantha14]

You just paraphrased my entire point. If they're trying to appear manly, or womanly, yes. it's perverse. But it's all about the heart -- that's also why I said some things are cut specifically for certain gender and shouldn't be worn, because it's basically the same thing. But hats and stuff aren't like that. Some are neutral items, and either made neutral, or made specific, like pants.

OH. and I've worn armor before. and a mens hat and coat. and shoes. I like plays. =p

[John Henry]

Women Actors as Men Characters? Or the reverse? I don't like that.