OAC Episode Discussion

[Shadow]

It's not half as bad as it looks. The only problem I have with it is that Buddy sounds so much older than he is pictured. Or maybe that's just me.

That's true, he does look like he's is 4th grade.

[PennyBassett]

Yeah I noticed that too. I liked his voice and I liked the picture but I'm just surprised it's the same person...

[Shadow]

This was originally supposed to be next month.

[Tarol]

Can we talk about A Forgiving Heart? Because I really liked it. o__0 Maybe it's because I wasn't expecting AIO to be planned far enough in advance to plan a death for Cog. (Sorry, my faith has left you AIO writers =00) That actually struck me out of the blue, and I really felt for Renee as I've lost many a pet #farmer, but also I really like the acting of her Aunt and felt the emotion there as well. But apparently not everyone liked it? 0_0 Thoughts?

[PennyBassett]

I really loved it. It wasn't amazing or completely entertaining the whole time but it was wonderful to see more of Renee's character and how she responds to different things. It gave me some good feels.

[Autumnal]

Lots and lots of spoilers. And (mostly) unedited WALLS OF TEXT

I personally hated the episode since the entire thing felt...ridiculous and juvenile to me. The very fact that Renee's main conflict was because her apparently favorite aunt killed her pet dog and lost not only her faith in God, but faith in people in AT ALL really says a lot about the quality of this episode.

Yeah, that stinks that it happened, but I just can't understand how that works. I mean, there are a lot of Christian farmers that my mother knows and they didn't lose just one pet. Like you mentioned, farmers lose a lot of animals, but they don't suddenly quit being Christians because their faith means more to them than an animal. And so do their family members. And somehow that isn't the case for Renee. It comes off as really selfish and co-dependent. On top of that, she was so attached to her pet, she WROTE AN ENTIRE COMPUTER PROGRAM (not only that, it was apparently an AI, one of the most complex kind of programs in the world) for it. She seriously needs to let go and move on. It's childish that she can't. If it was a person, it would be understandable. But no! No, it's aN ANIMAL. I love animals, I really do. But I'd be the first person to tell you that animals are inferior to people.

Furthermore, none of the characters are really that likable. This lady uses this guy's puppies as guinea pigs WITHOUT HIS PERMISSION and ruins his life. ...Which is kind of stupid in and of itself. No good dog breeder would ever put their entire life on the line for one litter of puppies. And then that guy STALKS HER? WHAT?!? I know they try to handwave it in saying it would be bad publicity, but he's basically a stalker. They could have easily written him off as crazy and not know what he's talking about.

However, I actually think Renee's character is redeemable. For example they could go down the path that she grew up in a Christian home but wasn't actually a Christian, thus her laughably weak faith. She could have co-dependency issues and learn that depending too much on the world can especially mess you up. And it'll show something that a few people actually have problems with, so it would be doubly better. If they did something like that, I'd be more accepting of her character. But for now, the only redeeming thing about her is her accent.

...And it won't change how ridiculous this episode was, in my opinion.

But I'd love to hear more of your guys' thoughts--I can understand how people would like this episode. I just don't because of how...extreme everything is.

[Tarol]

I agree the losing faith part over a pet is a big weakness in Renee's character, I don't deny that, but I didn't really see the focus on that in this episode. It was more about the pet itself and the conflict there, not about her faith.

[Kathy0]

I agree also. But, have any of you lost a pet? A pet that was YOURS? I personally can relate to her, but, that is not true for everyone! And I also tried to read between the lines and I think that what the writers were getting at is that we need to forgive! Even if someone hurt us deeply. Anyway that's just what I got!

[Tarol]

I agree also. But, have any of you lost a pet? A pet that was YOURS?

Heh heh heh, Honey... you don't want me to answer that. But yes, it's very traumatic, I know.

However, I would assume after you are 13-14, losing a pet isn't going to devistate your faith. You may be upset, but if you have much foundation at all, it's not going to ruin it forever. But it really depends on the person and situaton.

[TigerShadow]

Yes, but just because a message is good doesn't mean that it was presented well. AIO isn't just moralizing; it's telling stories. It's entertainment. And considering the high quality of stories they've entertained us with before, we have every right and reason to critique them when they try to sell us something that we're not sure we can buy.

It is true, though, that some people are very close to their pets; I know I definitely am, and I'm going to be pretty upset when my cat dies. I haven't heard the episodes in question, so I can't make any value judgments, but I guess the real question is this: is Renee properly developed as a great animal lover and a deeply emotionally sensitive person who was very close to her dog? If so, then the premise becomes more believable, depending on when the dog actually died. If not, I can definitely understand why it rubbed people the wrong way.

[Autumnal]

Not even 13 or 14--I've been losing pets as early as seven and it's never made me question my faith, much less lose it. Heck, look at the Parker(?) family in the bird episode. Apparently their pets have been dropping dead left and right and their faith has, AFAICT, never come into question! Granted, they probably weren't very close to them considering how easily they can joke about it.

I completely agree with TigerShadow; good morals ≠ good story. That seems to be the main issue with a lot of Christian media, probably why Christian movies are usually so infamous. And cheesy. There are exceptions, of course.

Back to the topic at hand, I understand it has to do with the person, I really do. But the fact that a pet made you lose your faith in God sounds ludicrous. And not only that, but refuse to talk to a family member and say that, "They're not hurting as much as I am!" is...unsettling. Read between the lines and it's basically her saying that the dog meant more to her than God and her family. I honestly don't know how to feel about this.

[GJFH]

I agree. Animals are not in any way comparative to human beings as companions. True, they are affectionate mostly and playful. However, we need so much more than affection or entertainment, we need affirmation and a strong emotional connection where both can compliment each other. Animals do not have the ability to challenge a person's thinking or have deep meaningful conversations.
It is sad to place that much value in an animal, unhealthy even.

[PennyBassett]

Ok with the death of a pet you have to concider what context this is in. Renee said she trusted Cog more than even her own parents so there was probably some difficulty in that area of her life. If a new Christian, especially one that is a child (presumably) lost her favorite dog, the only stable thing in her complicated life at the time, suddenly died seemingly pointlessly, then I think it's very possible for that person to loose her faith. Because it would make her ask: "If God is real, why would he let this happen?" It's a similar situation that Camilla was in in More Than a Feeling. Several things went wrong and she jumped to the false conclusion that she wasn't saved because of them. Fortunately, Camilla had people in her life that could set her straight, Renee probably did not.

[GJFH]

You do have a point PennyBassett, though it still is sad she would abandon her faith over the loss of her pet. I am not trying to sound mean or callous, in fact, thinking about it I realise this could be another way of speaking to members of the audience with the same experiences. Seeing how there are different levels of maturities that come with faith, perhaps the writers thought people could relate to Renee's situation and I know there are.
I dearly hope she is offered the right support and comfort from both her aunt and Mr. Whittaker, that she may be able to grow.

[Autumnal]

I see your point and I can't really disagree with it. However, like I said before, if she was raised in a Christian environment but wasn't a Christian herself (or if she wasn't in a Christian environment and went to church a few times; she would be the proverbial seeds that got swallowed by weeds), it would work. But with the knowledge we've been given, it still feels off.

And it's not just that, but she hasn't been able to move on (as shown with the AI). I have literally never heard of anyone who is so obsessed with an animal. If she was still able to accept what happened and move on--there are people who have accepted and moved on the death of family members--I could accept it. I wouldn't be too happy about it but it would be better that what we got. And just because she'd have moved on from her dog's death doesn't mean the hurt wouldn't go away and she'd still hold scars from it. I think the writers went a little overboard with trying to dig up pity points.

Honestly, so many other AIO characters have gone through more than losing a pet and they don't whinge about it all the time, unable to heal. I mean, even the characters who haven't entirely healed from their trauma (look at Eugene's dad, for example) don't sit around and go in the opposite direction of trying to move on.

[Ameraka]

Ok so animals may not be people but they can be close companions. Even with people, the majority of our communication is nonverbal. We can become very emotionally attached to animals. They are not able to give as sophisticated companionship as people, but they can be very in tune with people's emotions. They're not completely mindless; some, like dogs and cats, understand the tone of your voice and even some words. There are therapy dogs. Some people who have depression or anxiety have an emotional support animal. God didn't just make animals to eat(at all) they were originally companions they just were not on the level of another human being so God made Eve. . Animals can get people through a very tough time.

My cat has helped me by being there when the rest of my life was chaotic. Just a cuddly purring friend who is always consistent and doesn't judge can be very comforting.
Now I know that his death will hit me very hard. I doubt I would lose my faith. But people do react differently to an animal's death. I cry about animals on tv for goodness sake. Some don't really care that much ( like the Parkers). Mom grew up on a farm and has lost many animals. Every time she loses a dog it hits her hard. She can't be without a dog and usually gets another within a month. She lost her horse last year from colic; it was sudden and traumatic. She had him 17 years (since he was born). Now it didn't make her question her faith but it took her a long time to recover. I don't know if she totally has yet; she can't just get another like with a dog. That chapter of her life is over.
Even with people dying, reactions aren't the same. It depends on the circumstances and how close you were to the person. A sudden death can be harder than one you expect. If you're more emotionally attached to the person, it'll be harder.
If her dog helped her through some tough times I could see how it might shake her foundation. Losing her faith is a little extreme but perhaps there is more to Renee's story than we know yet.

[Tarol]

I think Amerika is right, although losing your faith over an animal may seem silly, I'm sure it's very possible. You have to take into account that she might have had a weak faith (if she grew up in Scotland and her parents were just nominally Catholic, that would make sense) and her pet was her best friend and she prayed it would get better it dies, she is extremely upset and leaves the faith.

The Epsidoe I forget the title of:

An alright episode. I don't know if I'm becoming less hateful towards everything or the episodes are just getting better. =p Everything was pretty good in this episodes, except the pointless bad guy was annoying. And it was a rip off of the friend episode with Isaac the basically Treasure of Lemond, but it was still interesting. I assume this year is Bible year for the OAC. *nods* I think they handle memorizing pretty well though, even if imaginative... it made it fun too I guess. =D Although some of the verses were random and made me wonder why she would even memorize them. But, I digress. =p

[Shadow]

Un-Tech The Halls was a pretty good episode. My only complaint was that they got stuck.

[PennyBassett]

Yes I had several little things to point out. I was surprised to find out that Camilla had a pet, because of previous incidents with pets and the Parkers. Then, don't the Parker kids call their grandma, Nana? I can't quite remember, but I don't think that changed. Then of course their were the character flaws that come with adding a new actor to the family. But other than that, it was a pretty sturdy episode!

[Autumnal]

I agree pretty much with PennyBassett. There are certainly a few "???" moments, and the lesson, moral, and storyline are overdone but it's okay. Even though it didn't bring anything new to the table as far as the premise goes, I still had fun with it. Also, the title was a pun. Extra points for the pun.