Higher Than Our Ways

[Monica Stone]

What did you guys think of this episode?

Hellooo, I was extremely wrong about my predictions??

[ASmouseInTheHouse]

I feel like the Odyssey team was messing with us. The album summary says "A GIRL" struggles with her faith. After all we've seen from Emily in LCTWTO and The Team, I think most of us expected it to be her who would have this issue.
And then, Emily doesn't even appear in this episode.
Even with the cover art that leads viewers into thinking that it is Emily who fell.
Sure, I see how the writers might have wanted to surprise the listeners, but it felt more like a "Gotcha!" twist. I don't know. Maybe it's just me, due to all the theorizing that has gone on around the SS.
But still, that could have been a very good development for Emily's story. And whatever happened to the Parkers being phased out? If Olivia and her mom can make regular appearances, why can't the others? Matthew Parker, I'm looking at you... I am interested in what happens and I liked the episode, but I can't help but feel misled...

[Woobou]

I don’t know guys. I didn’t really feel misled at all. It would have been too predictable for it to have been Emily. I am more surprised that it is Ms. Adelaide is pushing her lack of theology especially after the ending in The Ties That Bind. I think this was a great episode that addresses walking through a trial that everyone will experience at some point.

[MonkeyDude]

The part of me that ceaseless hungers for more Emily content was a little disappointed but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes. Olivia has probably been the most spiritually bolstered kid in this AIO era so it's a bit more jarring than it would be if it were say Zoey, who, though having a lot of appearences lately, really hasn't had any spiritual (or normal) development. Going off on a brief tangent, I actually really like Zoey and would love to see her get the spotlight to her self instead of just playing second fiddle all the time. The case for Emily can really go both ways because she has been going through a rough patch (and we were REALLY tipped off at the end of LCTWTO) but the Rydell arc is already kinda messy and really doesn't need anything else thrown in there.

But yeah, it does feel a bit like a "haha gotcha! why y'all so silly?" moment.

And whatever happened to the Parkers being phased out? If Olivia and her mom can make regular appearances, why can't the others? Matthew Parker, I'm looking at you...

This is exactly what I was thinking. I like that the Parkers have finally been given a good plot and purpose. Like you said though, I really hope they bring the others back too. Without having her whole family involved, the fully impact of Olivia's question, especially on her younger siblings, won't have quite as jolting (and realistic) of an effect on the audience. This arc really has a tone of potential and I really hope they treat it well.

On the note, I'm not sure if this was a remotely recorded episode but the cast felt really small? It makes sense why they wouldn't bring in more actors than they need but I just felt like something was holding it back if that makes sense? I'm getting really nitpicky, sorry, I'll stop.

But yeah, it was a solid episode and I'm really excited for the future of this arc!

ODYSSEY'S RIDICULOUS SCHOOL SYSTEMS ARE BACK AT IT AGAIN. jkjk. I'm pretty sure the team has just straight out come and said that, 'yeah, we aren't trying to make it make sense' which I'm totally fine with. BUT NONETHELESS

[djchatswithu]

I feel like the Odyssey team was messing with us. The album summary says "A GIRL" struggles with her faith. After all we've seen from Emily in LCTWTO and The Team, I think most of us expected it to be her who would have this issue.
And then, Emily doesn't even appear in this episode.
Even with the cover art that leads viewers into thinking that it is Emily who fell.
Sure, I see how the writers might have wanted to surprise the listeners, but it felt more like a "Gotcha!" twist. I don't know. Maybe it's just me, due to all the theorizing that has gone on around the SS.
But still, that could have been a very good development for Emily's story. And whatever happened to the Parkers being phased out? If Olivia and her mom can make regular appearances, why can't the others? Matthew Parker, I'm looking at you... I am interested in what happens and I liked the episode, but I can't help but feel misled...

I'm glad that it wasn't Emily as we were all expecting it, as it's nice to not hear exactly what everyone's predicted would happen once in a while.
Also, does anyone else not like the character of Ms Adelaide? it's just the way she seems to try and put anti-Christian messages in her assignments. the way she sounds hurt or angry or upset whenever anyone tries to talks to her about faith, it doesn't seem like a typical "I'm against it" or "I'm not interested so stop bugging me about it" response. There's clearly something that happened to make her like this. I know she didn't talk to her brother who was a christian much, and I don't think she's ever mentioned her parents, so it's most likely something happened with them. maybe one of them or another person who was/said they were a Christian did something that made her decide to get people to not be Christians, a bit like Grady Mckay. what do you guys think?

[Woobou]

Also, did anyone notice that this episode spanned a month?! When the girls are talking to Jason, Olivia says “I’ll be skiing next month” or something like that. Then they go have coffe and bam- they’re skiing. A month has passed.

[MonkeyDude]

Also, does anyone else not like the character of Ms Adelaide? it's just the way she seems to try and put anti-Christian messages in her assignments. the way she sounds hurt or angry or upset whenever anyone tries to talks to her about faith, it doesn't seem like a typical "I'm against it" or "I'm not interested so stop bugging me about it" response. There's clearly something that happened to make her like this. I know she didn't talk to her brother who was a christian much, and I don't think she's ever mentioned her parents, so it's most likely something happened with them. maybe one of them or another person who was/said they were a Christian did something that made her decide to get people to not be Christians, a bit like Grady Mckay. what do you guys think?

To be honest I actually like Ms Adelaide. Aside from how she graded that one assignment in TTTB (which was pretty awful), I think she's always been written with a good amount of grace. I think you can tell the Odyssey team has put a lot of care into making sure she isn't portrayed in a completely negative light. Personally, I've never been too put off by her to be unable to sympathize with her. In fact, I'd even go as far as to say that I actively enjoy her character (granted, more so in episodes like LCTWTO and Stage Fright where faith isn't much of a factor).

But yeah, I'd agree that she's preeetty touchy and unagreeable whenever faith comes up. However, I think it's really important to highlight that Olivia actively pushed Ms Adelaide to talk about her feelings on faith after she said multiple times she was uncomfortable doing so with a student. I do think it would have been wise for her to refrain from mention the upcoming philosophy assignment, just out of knowing that neither Olivia nor herself were in a clear, healthy mental state. But still, I personally don't think she is solely to blame as she tried to get out of the conversation many times (and I haven't seen anyone accuse her of this yet but I just thought I'd get that out there for discussion).

[Polehaus53]

Here are my thoughts:

Naughty AIO Team! They tricked us!
I am completely shocked that it wasn’t Emily who fell. But I feel like it would make more sense for Emily to lose her faith. It would fit better, considering all that she’s been through in the Rydell Saga. Throughout the whole episode, I assumed that it would be Emily. Wilson even kept asking about her throughout the beginning.

Aside from my unhappiness of it not being Emily, I think that this was a pretty good episode! I like that Ms. Adelaide is appearing and taking a more central role. I’m interested in hearing about her theology. I’d like to see Whit talk to her about what happened.

The scene where Wilson was trying to convince Olivia and Zoe to stop skiing was funny. Odyssey is quite educational. I did not know that hot chocolate prevents liver disease.

The case for Emily can really go both ways because she has been going through a rough patch (and we were REALLY tipped off at the end of LCTWTO) but the Rydell arc is already kinda messy and really doesn't need anything else thrown in there.

I agree with this. That makes sense, there probably shouldn't be anything else added there. Probably best course of action at this point is for them to conclude it and move on.

[djchatswithu]

Also, does anyone else not like the character of Ms Adelaide? it's just the way she seems to try and put anti-Christian messages in her assignments. the way she sounds hurt or angry or upset whenever anyone tries to talks to her about faith, it doesn't seem like a typical "I'm against it" or "I'm not interested so stop bugging me about it" response. There's clearly something that happened to make her like this. I know she didn't talk to her brother who was a christian much, and I don't think she's ever mentioned her parents, so it's most likely something happened with them. maybe one of them or another person who was/said they were a Christian did something that made her decide to get people to not be Christians, a bit like Grady Mckay. what do you guys think?

To be honest I actually like Ms Adelaide. Aside from how she graded that one assignment in TTTB (which was pretty awful), I think she's always been written with a good amount of grace. I think you can tell the Odyssey team has put a lot of care into making sure she isn't portrayed in a completely negative light. Personally, I've never been too put off by her to be unable to sympathize with her. In fact, I'd even go as far as to say that I actively enjoy her character (granted, more so in episodes like LCTWTO and Stage Fright where faith isn't much of a factor).

But yeah, I'd agree that she's preeetty touchy and unagreeable whenever faith comes up. However, I think it's really important to highlight that Olivia actively pushed Ms Adelaide to talk about her feelings on faith after she said multiple times she was uncomfortable doing so with a student. I do think it would have been wise for her to refrain from mention the upcoming philosophy assignment, just out of knowing that neither Olivia nor herself were in a clear, healthy mental state. But still, I personally don't think she is solely to blame as she tried to get out of the conversation many times (and I haven't seen anyone accuse her of this yet but I just thought I'd get that out there for discussion).

A good Point, Well made. I'm not trying to say she's a bad character, more that the way she's portrayed (story wise/not the actress) makes her look somewhat bad. Olivia may have been thinking about the incident from TTTB when she was talking to Ms Adelaide, and maybe wanted to better understand why Ms Adelaide appears to be so against Christianity. although it probably wasn't the best thing or time to say it, Olivia could have also said a lot worse.

[Woobou]

I feel like the Odyssey team was messing with us. The album summary says "A GIRL" struggles with her faith. After all we've seen from Emily in LCTWTO and The Team, I think most of us expected it to be her who would have this issue.
And then, Emily doesn't even appear in this episode.
Even with the cover art that leads viewers into thinking that it is Emily who fell.
Sure, I see how the writers might have wanted to surprise the listeners, but it felt more like a "Gotcha!" twist. I don't know. Maybe it's just me, due to all the theorizing that has gone on around the SS.
But still, that could have been a very good development for Emily's story. And whatever happened to the Parkers being phased out? If Olivia and her mom can make regular appearances, why can't the others? Matthew Parker, I'm looking at you... I am interested in what happens and I liked the episode, but I can't help but feel misled...

I'm glad that it wasn't Emily as we were all expecting it, as it's nice to not hear exactly what everyone's predicted would happen once in a while.
Also, does anyone else not like the character of Ms Adelaide? it's just the way she seems to try and put anti-Christian messages in her assignments. the way she sounds hurt or angry or upset whenever anyone tries to talks to her about faith, it doesn't seem like a typical "I'm against it" or "I'm not interested so stop bugging me about it" response. There's clearly something that happened to make her like this. I know she didn't talk to her brother who was a christian much, and I don't think she's ever mentioned her parents, so it's most likely something happened with them. maybe one of them or another person who was/said they were a Christian did something that made her decide to get people to not be Christians, a bit like Grady Mckay. what do you guys think?

Yes! Ms. Adelaide just seems very bitter and it bothers me. I like her in episodes that are not centered around Faith. She is just very pushy and just angry!

[ASmouseInTheHouse]

I'm back after hearing this episode a couple more times:

I liked it.
You bet that first scene had me curious when I heard it the first time, and that alone should've tipped off that it was Olivia who would, um, fall. I knew that the 'fall' could mean spiritual and physical, but I never considered that both aspects would be experienced by two different people! So yeah. Should have figured.

But anyway. Just some random notes:
- I guess Olivia and Zoe don't usually hang out with Emily
- Would Wilson try to prevent something that God said would happen? I don't know what to think of this. I guess I would, if I knew someone was going to fall down a mountain.
- That scene with Trevor...
- How ironic that Ms. Adelaide's class is suddenly studying philosophy
- Is Olivia keeping the researching-philosophers thing a secret?

So, I guess Olivia is just curious about Ms. Adelaide's beliefs. That makes sense, considering everything in the TTB that happened with Ms. Adelaide and the Parkers. Basically she's saying that it's too cruel a world for there to be a God, because bad things don't make sense? I think Ms. Adelaide is an interesting character. Like djchatswithu said, I'm curious as to the origins of her hostility towards God.

I'm giving this episode a 4 out of 5. It was good.

I'm curious about the next episode. "Triple-Decker Sundae". Will it be a continuation? If so, I would really love it if the 'triple' aspect was the three Parker siblings, but it might just be Olivia, Emily, and Zoe again. Or it may have nothing to do with the Olivia story. I'm looking forward to it!

[Polehaus53]

Here are more of my thoughts:

I think it's really important to highlight that Olivia actively pushed Ms Adelaide to talk about her feelings on faith after she said multiple times she was uncomfortable doing so with a student. I do think it would have been wise for her to refrain from mention the upcoming philosophy assignment, just out of knowing that neither Olivia nor herself were in a clear, healthy mental state. But still, I personally don't think she is solely to blame as she tried to get out of the conversation many times (and I haven't seen anyone accuse her of this yet but I just thought I'd get that out there for discussion).

I agree, it was Olivia who went directly to Mrs. Adelaide and probed her for information about her non-faith (which I find odd). I’m hoping we hear more from Mrs. Adelaide in future episodes, particularly about her backstory. It would be interesting to hear about her theology and how she came to it. Like I said, it would be interesting to hear Whit and Rhonda have a conversation about it, like he said in The Ties That Bind, that he would like to continue their discussions.

Oh, and by the way, check out this comment on the “Farewell, Kids of Kidsboro” topic. It’s prophetic!

When I think of Ryan, I think of him as a person who is very well grounded in his faith, and who is not afraid to stand up for what he believes. Honestly, I think Olivia would be more likely to slip in her faith than Ryan.

This comment was written in 2015. 6 years ago, and long before the AIO Team planned this episode. TruAIOfan predicted that Olivia would fall from faith!!!

I'm still annoyed that it wasn't Emily, though. Hopefully Album 72 will continue Emily's storyline from "The Team".

Although this episode wasn’t how I thought it would be, I thought it was good! I’m still excited to see what the rest of Album 71 holds!

[Tarol]

I've decided its finally time to put down some thoughts about this episode!

Honestly, someone losing their faith on AIO is really exciting for me-if they can do this well.

I am curious right away who this mysterious donor is? They brought up the question twice which makes it seem important, but could easily be another red herring to make us think we're gonna see Emily.

Then we have Jason and Pastor Knox doing the "old man has dreams, so he starts stalking little girls"... Ok, its maybe not that bad, but the hot chocolate scene still makes me uncomfortable. I guess I just have so many questions about this vision vibe. Pastor Knox is a pastor, so shouldn't he know that just because you have vision doesn't mean it's from God? But also, why is this how he's going about following this vision? Also, other than a group connection with Zoe, Emily, and Olivia in Christmas Bells, there is NO connection between the 3 girls in this episode. This just feels like a bad combination of interpretations to me, and I think shows why prophecy is so complicated and doesn't help us much until the event has already happened.

Then we lose a school teacher. This was a lot to throw at us - especially to try to make us emotional in 22 minutes. The scene with Trevor was a lot, but definitely added to the emotion and stress of Olivia and us.

Which leads to Olivia asking Ms. Adelaide about faith, or lack there of. Which is an interesting turn of events without much explanation, but it is definitely relatable to this general situation. I honestly loved Ms. Adelaïde's response to Olivia, so mature and respectful to Olivia and her family. But clearly Olivia was interested-interested.

Lastly, Eva’s comments at the end were so beautiful and respectful. I love the women in this episode, they respected Olivia as a human who could make her own decisions and think about things. I think this was such a wonderful experience and example for other families to think about and learn from.

Now, for Ms. Adelaide, I have a lot of thoughts.

First of all, I disagree that she was hateful in this episode. She seems entirely respectful to me and literally refused to answer Olivia at first. Olivia was the pushy one here. I suppose it's valid that Ms. Adelaide shouldn't have given Olivia the option when they were both in highly emotional and confused states, but it is also Ms. Adelaide’s duty as a teacher to help students learn. I'm honestly a little confused why they weren't studying a variety of philosophers (including the atheists) anyway. If Sepinov was "off list", what philosophers /are/ they reading?

Secondly, in my opinion we have been given Ms. Adelaide's reason to be upset at Christians. In the Ties that Bind, we find out that Ms. Adelaide's brother was queer (probably gay, if not trans) and that Ms. Adelaide very strongly supported the LGBTQ community. I don't remember how much this was discussed in the album, but I would assume Ms. Adelaide and her brother had many confrontational and negative experiences with Christians, which would correlate completely with her anger towards religion. This is of course just my take, but it seems very obvious in my head, so I'm not sure if AIO told this or if I just came up with it.

I have a few questions... several people have mentioned here they are interested in Ms. Adelaide's theology. What do you mean by that? She mentions she doesn't believe in God, so do you mean you wonder what her moral standings or beliefs are? I'm just curious if you interpret her "not believing in God" in a different way or what you mean by the term "theology."

Also, has Emily always been the same grade as Olivia? So Matthew is younger? But I thought Matthew and Emily were the same grade?? I'm confusion. Can anyone help me out with this?

[Polehaus53]

In the Ties that Bind, we find out that Ms. Adelaide's brother was queer (probably gay, if not trans) and that Ms. Adelaide very strongly supported the LGBTQ community. I don't remember how much this was discussed in the album

If I recall correctly, none of those things were specified in the album. Randall didn't get specific when he spoke about his past, and it wasn't clear what exacrly Ms. Adelaide was supporting when Polehaus found the video online. It all depends on how you interpret their lines. But I could be wrong. It's been too long since I've heard the album, so I don't remember very clearly.

I have a few questions... several people have mentioned here they are interested in Ms. Adelaide's theology. What do you mean by that? She mentions she doesn't believe in God, so do you mean you wonder what her moral standings or beliefs are? I'm just curious if you interpret her "not believing in God" in a different way or what you mean by the term "theology."

Theology is probably the wrong word. I meant what you said, I’m wondering what her moral standings and beliefs are and how she came to them. I'd like specific detail of how she came to them, surely there's a story.

Also, has Emily always been the same grade as Olivia? So Matthew is younger? But I thought Matthew and Emily were the same grade?? I'm confusion. Can anyone help me out with this?

Best I could figure is that they’re all in the same grade together. I guess Olivia is still older than Matthew, but not old enough to be in a separate grade? I really have no idea. I’m not one for trying to figure out Odyssey time or character’s ages.

The simplest solution? Don’t think about it. I’ve stuck to this method, and it makes life a lot easier.

This episode certainly leaves you with a lot to think about.

[Patterson]

This episode certainly leaves you with a lot to think about.

That it does. I'm curious to see where this storyline with Olivia goes. That thing about character ages is super confusing, Maybe Olivia's been held back a year or two in a particular subject and is still taking a class at the middle school?

The line by wilson about chocolate being used to treat liver disease in sixteenth century spain was interesting when I seem to remember a Did You Know segment saying that drinking chocolate was once considered a sin. Wish I could remember which episode. A quick internet search showed articles saying drinking chocolate during fasts was considered by some to be breaking fast laws and therefore a sin according to some, but not outright banned by the Catholic church as a whole.

As much as I disagree with Ms. Adelaide, I think she was correct in trying to dissuade Olivia saying that public school teachers aren't allowed to share religious beliefs on school property. My Dad's an elementary school teacher and he's talked before about how crazy strict that rule is. He's said that the best he can do legally is casually promote an after school club at our church and even that came pretty close to getting him in trouble once.

On another note, I wish they'll go in depth a little more in future episodes about the the teachings that Olivia is reading from those philosophers and why they're pushing Olivia away from belief in God. I realize Odyssey's a kid's show, meaning going much in depth isn't likely and that there wasn't time left in this episode, but it felt just tacked on to the end.

Somehow I doubt Ms. Adelaide would suggest Pascal's wager to Olivia. Beyond C.S. Lewis books, I don't read much philosophy, but I think Pascal's Wager is really interesting. Essentially, it says that If I don't believe in God and if God doesn't exist, I lose nothing . But If I don't believe in God and God does exist, I face eternal punishment. Then if I do trust in God and God doesn't exist I lose nothing. Vice versa, If I trust God for salvation and God does exist, then I get to be with him in heaven for all eternity. Basically it's saying belief in God is a more logical eternal gamble than not believing in Him. Of course Following Jesus is a relationship with God, not simply saying "I don't want to go to hell." so I don't think Pascal's wager is a good evangelism tool, but the argument is an interesting thought nonetheless. Sorry for the slightly off topic rambling, that's just kinda the way my mind works.

[Polehaus53]

On another note, I wish they'll go in depth a little more in future episodes about the the teachings that Olivia is reading from those philosophers and why they're pushing Olivia away from belief in God. I realize Odyssey's a kid's show, meaning going much in depth isn't likely and that there wasn't time left in this episode, but it felt just tacked on to the end.

It would be interesting of they gave specific ideas from the philosophers, which is something I wondered if they would do when I first heard this episode. The Odyssey Team does sometimes avoids getting into deep philosophical ideas, probably for the reason that this is a kid’s show, like you mentioned. Not to give any spoilers, but we do hear some of this in the next episodes of Album 71. Keep listening.

Somehow I doubt Ms. Adelaide would suggest Pascal's wager to Olivia. Beyond C.S. Lewis books, I don't read much philosophy, but I think Pascal's Wager is really interesting. Essentially, it says that If I don't believe in God and if God doesn't exist, I lose nothing . But If I don't believe in God and God does exist, I face eternal punishment. Then if I do trust in God and God doesn't exist I lose nothing. Vice versa, If I trust God for salvation and God does exist, then I get to be with him in heaven for all eternity. Basically it's saying belief in God is a more logical eternal gamble than not believing in Him. Of course Following Jesus is a relationship with God, not simply saying "I don't want to go to hell." so I don't think Pascal's wager is a good evangelism tool, but the argument is an interesting thought nonetheless.

It is indeed an interesting argument, thanks for sharing that. I’m not very familiar with this idea, but it is very interesting. But I as well think that the chances of Ms. Adelaide sharing this idea with Olivia are pretty slim; although I wouldn’t be surprised if she is familiar with this.

The line by wilson about chocolate being used to treat liver disease in sixteenth century spain was interesting when I seem to remember a Did You Know segment saying that drinking chocolate was once considered a sin. Wish I could remember which episode.

I believe you are referring to “B-TV: Temptation", where during the Did You Know segment, it is mentioned that chocolate was once considered a temptation of the devil in the 1700s in Central America, where anyone who was under the age of 60 drank chocolate was kicked out of the church. Very fun fact. It is interesting that we also learn some more fascinating information about this delightful desert from Wilson when he tries to dissuade Olivia and Zoe from skiing. That’s two Odyssey episodes containing unknown secrets about chocolate. I wonder if this was a reference to that episode or not?