Creationism or Evolutionism.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Okay, so did God take 14 literal days to create the earth? Cause between Genesis 1 & 2 there are 14 days mentioned.

[Wodfamchocsod]

I never knew that but if God said 14 days he meant it.

[Eleventh Doctor]

So the earth wasn't created in six days?

[Wodfamchocsod]

So the earth wasn't created in six days?

Yes it was.
I'm not sure what you meant by 14 days...maybe I didn't see that part. . But if it's truly in there God definitely meant it. What verse?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Genesis 1-2:3 is one creation account and then in chapter 2 verse 4 it starts over again

[NateVONgreat]

11th, stop being a smart-alec, and provocative.

today I realized something that gave me chills.
I was at work, and I walked into the storage area, and I had this realization that the year is 2014 (!!) that means, it has been 2000 years (that is a honking long time, 2000 years!!!!) since God started his plan for salvation, by sending Jesus, he sure has a lot of patience for us, we just live in sin, and argue and fight each other and God sits in heaven with earth as his step stool, and then I realized it has been about 6000 years since he created the earth, and ultimately started his plan for salvation, now that is a honking longer time to wait patiently.

just a thought

all I can say is that I love God.

I grew up an Old Earth Creationist and only recently started considering theistic evolution.

How can you say this?! How could you go from wrong to wronger?! Here is a thought, how about you consider a young earth? hmm? dare to do it.

I think that our view on this issue is largely unimportant and not a salvation issue as long as you believe God created the universe out of nothing.

Wrong. It is VERY important, I have said it before and I will say it again. Firstly, If the Genesis says that God created it in 6 days and it is a lie, the reliability of the rest of the Bible is questionable, and believe me, it is a serious stumbling block to many.
Secondly, If you have some sort of evolution taking place before the fall, because then we have a problem with death before sin, or God saying that it is "very good".
In a nutshell, the only theory that fits the Bible is the youth earth creation, and if anyone is worrying about what science says about the age of the earth, forget that! those scientists scoffers who are willingly ignorant of the flood and of the creation.

If you have believed in Christ as your Savior, I have no doubt I shall see you in heaven someday. Simply because you believe in theistic evolution has nothing to do with your salvation.

I agree I will see you in heaven, the danger is not that. The danger is it can slowly make you doubt the Bible and God. And it can be a serious problem when trying to witness to people, or to a new believer, someone who is young in the faith.

I have a question: Polar bears cannot live together with animals of the tropics. How could Noah carry animals of different climates in his ark? How could they survive? Augustine suggests that God could have created animals even after Noah's flood.

I believe that before the flood there were polar bears, however, there were no ice caps.
You are looking at the earth today, understanding how it is, and assuming that that is how it was 6000 years a go when God created it. But it is not, it is very different, Genesis says that the whole earth was covered in herbs and plants, today very little of the earth is covered in plants, most is Oceans, seas Ice caps and deserts. But now you are asking, how did the polar bears survive. The polar bears were just normal polar bears, maybe they did live in colder areas, and not humid places, but they adapted after the flood slowly to fit the norther ice cap, maybe the polar bear and grizzly bear had a common ancestor who was on the ark, and then as the bear family grew, and parted they changed a bit and adapted to their environments, this might be what killed the dinos, I don't believe so, but maybe they didn't manage to adapt to the destroyed earth after the flood.

I don't particularly like "scientific evidence" of any sort, the only truth is God's word.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I'm trying to have a discussion, I don't know why you need to resort to name calling.

I did consider young earth, doesn't make sense to me.

It is no more a lie than David saying he was walking through the valley of the shadow of death when he wasn't actually walking through a valley of that name. It's only a stumbling block because you have declared that there is only one theory that fits the Bible.

I never said there was evolution before the fall. As to your point that God says it is very good, did God create every species variation past, future, and present in the garden? If He didn't then how did they come about and how were they very good?

I disagree, I think if you want to hold to a young earth creation view that's fine. I think within that view there is the point that matters, the creation of everything out of nothing by God. But to say that science doesn't matter is to ignore a large portion of history where Christian scientist cared about science, after all God created the earth so we can learn about creation and about nature from studying the earth.

I don't particularly like "scientific evidence" of any sort, the only truth is God's word.

I think this is a very dangerous statement, taken to it's extreme it becomes unhelpful. I mean if I look up and say the sky is blue haven't I spoken a truth that is not in the Bible? Also I assume you're referring to the Bible when you say God's word when in fact it is Christ not the Bible that is God's Word.

[Wodfamchocsod]

So, I got to thinking about this topic and evolution.
If someone believes in evolution, what will God's involvement in their life be? Since evolution is random with no apparent design, do individuals have a purpose for their life?
Is God in control if He didn't create the universe?
One problem with evolution is that in Genesis 2:7, the Bible says God created by a direct act and man didn't arise from any preexisting life form. Denying this is denying Genesis 2:7.
Also, if someone believes in evolution, they not only believe in millions of years of preexisting life forms, but also the existence of suffering and death before Adams is and the curse, which resulted in death.
One thing I noticed PF put at the top evolution doesn't contradict the Bible. If you read Genesis, you'll find that evolution contradicts the Bible, starting at verse one.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

[Wakko]

One thing I noticed PF put at the top evolution doesn't contradict the Bible. If you read Genesis, you'll find that evolution contradicts the Bible, starting at verse one.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

You obviously didn't read anyone who believes in the theist evolution, because they do believe that He created the Heavens and the Earth. >_>

[ArnoldtheRubberDucky]

NateVONGreat, are you basically saying that the Bible is your science workbook, and the only source you'll ever consult for science? If so, that's an extremely silly and close minded thing to do. The Bible is God's Word, the living, breathing voice of God, and the ultimate text on how to live our lives, but I think we all can agree it is not a science book. It lines up with science, and we can compare it to science, but God did not intend it to be the "end of the story" scientifically. You say you don't like "scientific evidence of any sort". I'm wondering why you hold this rather extreme belief. Is it because you're afraid that science could one day potentially contradict the Bible and all your faith would be in vain? Is it because the fact that some (gasp!) non-Christian scientists have contributed great things to the realm of science?

I find it odd that you call Eleventh Doctor, who is actually posing legitimate questions, a smart alek, when it's you who's being more of a smart alek by completely disrespecting the men who have worked their whole lives to understand God's creation and help the rest of humanity through their discoveries. Perhaps you should consider the old Earth theory, now that we've already established that Eleventh Doctor has considered he new one. The truth is, God uses these scientists, Christian and non-Christian, to create progress, so that man may understand God better. God is not in opposition with science, he is science, all of science, and the second we understand that is the second we get to know him better.

Science, through God, created the medicine that keeps you healthy, the Internet you're using to make he's posts, and even the planes you fly as a pilot (Just as a side note, I think it's fantastic that you're serving our country as a pilot. I only wish I had the courage or talent to do something like that.). So what if there are currently scientist "scoffers ignorant of creation and the flood" out there questioning the existence of God? They should be questioning the existence of God. We shouldn't just blindly accept the Bible as truth because our parents did. We should examine the only thing we can examine to prove the existence of God: the outside world around us, and thus, science. And if science completely disproves the existence of a God and the truth of he Bible, we should reject the Bible, all of it, just as we would reject Evolution or Islam. Fortunately, science doesn't disprove the existence of God or the truth of the Bible. In fact, many would argue (including myself and, hopefully, yourself) that it proves it. Do you honestly think that God wanted scientific progress to stop after Jesus? Please clarify if this is what you mean, because I could've been reading your post all wrong.

Wodfamchocsod, I understand your point, but I disagree with it. Theistic evolution would not contradict the first verse of Genesis at all. It's just a different way of approaching it. The purpose in life would be exactly the same as a normal Christian, that is, to serve God in everything you do, ultimately spend eternity with him, and make an effort to convince others to do the same. Evolution only contradicts the Bible if you're taking "seven days" literally, as in our definition of "seven days". But if you're going to do that, you might as well say that Jesus wants us all to literally turn into sheep, or that he somehow wants adults to reverse the aging process and literally become children. I suppose what it all boils down to is whether you're taking the Bible literally, in every single sense of the word "literally". You are, and Eleventh Doctor isn't, necessarily.

[Mr. Yorp]

If you don't believe in earthly things why would you believe of heaven?!

[Eleventh Doctor]

I don't understand your point. How am I denying Heaven?

[Mr. Yorp]

If you deny Jesus Christ, he will deny you.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Did I ever say I deny Christ?

[Mr. Yorp]

Did you?

[Eleventh Doctor]

No, so I don't understand your point.

Did you look at the previous pages in this thread?

[Mr. Yorp]

I'm just saying (Jesus really) to every one, if you don't believe Creation is as it says in the Bible, Why should you believe you will go to heaven?

[Eleventh Doctor]

I believe God created the universe out of nothing, that is all that Genesis tells us dogmatically. I can however disagree with your interpretation of Genesis and still believe in God.

Would you say that one must believe in a literal Six Day Creation to be a Christian?

[Mr. Yorp]

Yes.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Why is it that important?