Is Lying Always Wrong?

[Woody]

I'm curious what you guys think on this topic. I've been thinking on this a bit since reading "The Hiding Place", in which the characters lie to protect Jews hidden in their house during the Holocaust. Personally, I think that lying to protect others is not wrong, or at the very most, is the lesser of two evils. Anywho, debate away. *begins predicting who will be on what side*

[Miss Friendship]

What side am I on?

The minute I read the subject title my mind went to that incident in the Hiding Place.

[Woody]

Hmm... I have a feeling that you are on the Nollie side(to tell the truth, and have faith that God will protect those you would have lied for.)

[Miss Friendship]

You're right. I don't think its right to lie...but I do think you can be careful with words and maybe turn the enemies minds away from what they want without actually lying.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I think it's not only okay but the right thing to lie to protect the innocent and persecuted. Since we're talking about World War Two here is an example from my tradition. http://jewishcurrents.org/march-31-moth ... paris-4518

Mother Maria of Paris was a Russian nun who lived in Paris during WW2 and helped many Jews flee the Nazi persecution. She would give them false baptism certificates from her parish so they had paperwork saying they were Christians so the Nazis wouldn't arrest them.

[Miss Friendship]

So what about the fact that our conscience bothers us when we lie?

And its listed as one of the things God positively hates?

[Woody]

You're right. I don't think its right to lie...but I do think you can be careful with words and maybe turn the enemies minds away from what they want without actually lying.

But isn't that still a form of deception?

[Eleventh Doctor]

My conscious would not be bothered if I lied to protect the lives of people from the Nazis. In fact it would be bothered if I didn't save them.

[Woody]

My conscious would not be bothered if I lied to protect the lives of people from the Nazis. In fact it would be bothered if I didn't save them.

^This

Excuse the one-word post(that is no longer a one-word post), but those are my thoughts exactly.

[Miss Friendship]

My conscience would be...

God honors those who honor Him. I think God could protect the Jews even when I couldn't.

When Jesus was being questioned in trial, He kept silent to important questions. Isn't that a form of the same kind of deception that I mentioned? I wouldnt call it deception, as i would call it "silence"

[Eleventh Doctor]

I think God would be using me to save those people. That would be God honoring to me.

[Miss Friendship]

I wouldn't want the reputation that "yes I will lie if it saves others." It sort of opens a door to dishonesty and ruins trust, even if you never face that day. Either lying is wrong or its right. I don't see scripture making room for compromise.

[Eleventh Doctor]

So when Rahab lied to protect the spies in Jericho that was wrong?

I would gladly take that reputation, Mother Maria is one of my heroes and a Saint. I don't think she was dishonest or had trust in her ruined.

[Miss Friendship]

Well believe what you feel is right. I just believe the Bible was meant to be taken literally...all of it.

Rahab lied yes, but then again she was a heathen and didn't know Gods law at that time.

Corrie Ten Boom is one of my heroes too (named after her) but I think she did make a few mistakes in her life.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I believe that my stance on saving others is informed by Scripture not apart from it.

So in Hebrews why do you think Rahab is listed with the heroes of faith from the Old Testament? If she was such a heathen?

Everyone makes a few mistakes.

[Miss Friendship]

We can help others without needing to use sin as a way to help...just because we are helping doesn't excuse when we disobey God.

Do you suppose Rahab would have been in that list if she hadn't forsaken her heathen country and joined the Israelites?

And she made the mistake of lying...the scary thing is, what if she was never sorry for it?

[Eleventh Doctor]

I don't think it's sinning in this case. Just like you think it's silence or changing the topic when you lie by not speaking.

She still lied

I'm pretty sure she wasn't sorry for saving lives, but then who are to judge?

[Miss Friendship]

Suppose the New Testament was clear on this subject of lying? Ananias was killed for lying...even though he was doing something partially good.

Romans 12:17 says,

Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

That includes "all men" even the Nazis coming for the Jews.

Colossians 3:9

Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

Lying is an abomination to God, and one of the crimes listed as belonging to those who shall be thrown into the lake of fire.

The story was once told of some Romanians (Christians) who were attempting to escape the country. They got all the way to the border before two guards stopped them and asked them if they were attempting an escape. It was so tempting to simply lie, and to save their lives. But they decided that in obedience to God, they could not do that. So they told the truth. "Good," said the guards. "We're going with you."

Not saying that telling the truth will always result in an immediate reward. You could lose your life... but if you lied, you'd lose your life in a more terrible way. Honesty always pays. Why? Because God says so.

[TigerShadow]

Honesty is important, yes, but I would rather lie than knowingly condemn innocent people to torture and death, if it comes to that. I would be upset about having to lie, but I would have a clear conscience because of my reasons. The thing is, in an ideal situation, you wouldn't have to lie—but then again, in an ideal situation, people wouldn't have vendettas against other human lives.

[Woody]

What do you think of 1 Samuel 16:2, in which God tells Samuel to lie*?

And Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the Lord said, Take an heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the Lord.

*Granted, it is not so much a lie as it is a partial truth.