*says with British accent* ... Do so ever hope that thou was joking!Aaron Wiley wrote:I'd like to change my argument:
I think it's sinful for woman to wear any sort of lower covering at all. Females should only wear shirts.
For clarification, are you saying that rules that God makes doesn't matter? I know that isn't what you meant, but it sure seems like you are saying something like "Not ALL rules that God made last, so we can chose which we want to obey" Where I don't think some rules APPLY to us, I don't think that means they don't last. Obviously God had a reason for them, and there is a reason they are in the bible.Pound Foolish wrote: The Bible never meant all it's rules to last through the ages. Divorce, for example, is now morally out the window.
Second, are you saying that since divorce is "morally out the window" that it is now okay to get a divorce?
Just because a society thinks something is morally alright, or everyone is doing it, doesn't mean that it is acceptable or that we should do it. The Bible is against separating something God made holy, such as marriage. Now, the Bible does allow (if that's the right word) divorce in situations such as adultury. That being said, I don't think that God's stance on divorce has changed or wasn't "made to last".
Yes, there are some pretty crazy "rules" in the Bible. I went to a bible study/elective class thing last night and we were talking about crazy/questionable rules in the Bible. I wish I had payed better attention/took more notes because it was really interesting. The basic idea of it is that some rules may seem crazy or unreasonable but does that mean they aren't in our best interest? We may just not have the whole picture.
The teacher told us a story about when his daughter was very young he buckled her into her car seat. During their drive she managed to get out of her car seat. She didn't see anything wrong with it, she was too little to understand the danger. He pulled over and strapped his daughter back in. By this point she was crying and struggling and probably felt like he was being "unfair" or "mean" or he had some crazy rule. But she wasn't able to comprehend to understand why he was doing it, so it seemed wrong. Aren't some of God's rules/guidelines like that? are we meant to understand all of them?
Like this rule: Leviticus 15:2 "'Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When any man has an unusual bodily discharge, such a discharge is unclean. Whether it continues flowing from his body or is clocked, it will make him unclean''"
This whole passage is rather interesting. Basically anything coming out of your body is considered 'unclean' no matter if it's natural or not. Now we may be like " O_o why would God make that rule? Should we no longer go to the bathroom?" but really.. he was just setting aside time for the body to recover/clean oneself from the discharge. Pretty much understandable.
Ok. I don't fully understand this one.. but essentially slavery isn't right. I am not positive it totally says that in scripture, but I do know that God didn't held his people's treatment of their slaves at a different and higher standard. Also.. wasn't Christ the slave/servent of us? and doesn't He call us to be servants to all? About the "relations" Sexual immortality is definitely against's God's will, it says so several times in the Bible.Pound Foolish wrote:
I guess what I am saying, PF, is that I don't really see your points and how they relate to pants. They are interesting thoughts, which is why I wrote a reply =p . But I don't see how it relates to women wearing pants.
I think that wearing pants is a personal opinion. If a woman wears, or doesn't wear, pants it doesn't make her any more or less a Christian. Obviously we want to do what pleases God but as long as we are modest, ladies, we can either wear pants or not wear pants. It's personal preference/cultural/ denominational.
Sorry this is so long, and kinda off topic.. *shrug*
And those points relate to the pants issue because some here are trying to say that the Biblical command to women to not wear men's clothing means pants since they are "men's" clothing.
"It's particularly ignorant to assume malicious or ignorant intentions behind an opinion with which one disagrees." ~Connie
Thank you Eleventh Doctor! First off, Mrs. Wiley, excuse the tirade (see why I like Emily?) But it was affective... As to divorce, Mrs. Wiley...
Deuteronomy 24:1 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house,
Deuteronomy 24:3 and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies,
The Bible clearly allows divorce. However, Jesus later says...
""Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."
This is a clear example of something taught through the Bible, which was valid through the entire Old Testament. This is just one of many examples as I and Eleventh Doctor pointed out. The evidence is obvious. And there is only one equally obvious conclusion: many of God's laws have a necessary expiration date. Especially those pertaining to women.
Liz'alike wrote:I'm with you GG lol I think they almost hit my hair line!
I'm very sorry to have missed this discussion . But here I am now! (I must put in my two cents hehe)
I don't see anything wrong with jeans. If done modestly. I see girls who walk around with TIGHT jeans that have holes going up their entire legs... I don't think that's right. But I don't see anything wrong with wearing jeans if done modestly.
I personally don't like skirts (GASP)... I'm a very German girl, therefore stocky... My legs chaff, therefore making skirts a nightmare for me (pardon my openness boys haha)! I only wear them when I have to. But I always enjoy seeing others who wear them! To be honest, I would love to wear them all the time! I do feel they are a lot more feminine than jeans. But I don't (for the reasons above.)
I think it's great that you wear skirts all the time Gabby! (and Allie ) More power to you!
I really liked what you said there, Allie. Wearing skirts full time is a personal conviction. Just like purity and saving my first kiss is really important to me. We all have different focuses. Different convictions.NinjaThrowingStar wrote:But it's a personal conviction, like I personally will not kiss a guy before I'm married to him... not that the Bible says it's wrong per sa, but I feel it's wrong.
(Just out of curiosity Gabby, is your family Vision Forum?)
What's Vision Forum?
Doctor, I agreed with what you said, I will probably end up somehow restating your post.
Pound Foolish, I agreed with your conclusion, that it is not wrong for women to wear pants. I did, however, disagree with the way you came to that conclusion. You cited several laws from the old testament that obviously no longer apply, and proceeded to say that sexist rules should no longer be used.
I firmly believe that the principles behind old testament laws apply to us just as much as they did to the Israelites, as they come from God who is unchanging. The laws themselves were intended for a specific people (Israelites) in a specific place (Israel) at a specific time (not now). The specific rules no longer apply to us. Christ fulfilled the law so we do no not have to. Otherwise, we could not wear differing types of cloth, plant different types of grain onthe same field, and we would have to build (I had the perfect word, and suddenly I can't remember what it was) walls? around the edges of our roofs.
As several others have stated, I believe that dress is a personal conviction and should be a private matter between us, God, and perhaps close family. It is better to err on the safe side, but we should also not let dress hamper us constantly when it is not feasible.
Odyssey Fan Wiley, I really enjoyed your post. I think I agreed with everything you said.
I have no idea what this comment is directed at.... Did I ask something about her denomination, and I just don't remember?T.S. (myself) wrote:Apparently not. Christian, I do know that Gabby is a Methodist, but she has not specified further than that, I believe.
So tell me, TS, what principle is selling your daughter into slavery based on?I firmly believe that the principles behind old testament laws apply to us just as much as they did to the Israelites, as they come from God who is unchanging.
Sorry about that. I thought you asked if gabby was Vision Forum (not that I know what that means), but that was actually Liz'alike.Christian A. wrote:I have no idea what this comment is directed at.... Did I ask something about her denomination, and I just don't remember?T.S. (myself) wrote:Apparently not. Christian, I do know that Gabby is a Methodist, but she has not specified further than that, I believe.
And Pound Foolish, I'm coming to you.
Ah, now I understand. No, I did not ask that, but, knowing what Vision Forum is, that was a valid question. Vision Forum is a Christian ministry run out of San Antonio, Texas. They have very conservative opinions when it comes to dress, music, and things like that. Skirts-only for women is one of their stances, so I can see why Liz asked that question. You're right, however, that it sounded like she was asking about her denomination.T.S. (myself) wrote:Sorry about that. I thought you asked if gabby was Vision Forum (not that I know what that means), but that was actually Liz'alike.Christian A. wrote:I have no idea what this comment is directed at.... Did I ask something about her denomination, and I just don't remember?T.S. (myself) wrote:Apparently not. Christian, I do know that Gabby is a Methodist, but she has not specified further than that, I believe.
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(By the way, I am NOT trying to offend anybody. If I did, I am really sorry)
TS, I'm looking forward to you getting to me... I enjoy crushing you. (So much for being sensitive.)
Pound Foolish wrote:So far, Sparky, almost everyone has a agreed that wearing jeans is fine. So no worries. Actually, wearing tight jeans isn't necessarily so wrong either. It doesn't reveal any actual skin, and after all, there's nothing you-know-what-ual about legs.
But tight jeans show your figure. Causing people (males) to not really look at the right things....
Mr. Yorp wrote:You don't need a degree to shovel manure.
Wait... what? Why? Are you saying they don't look better in skirts?fodo14 wrote:I hope women wear pants.........
Mr. Yorp wrote:You don't need a degree to shovel manure.