Should Christians (Followers of Jesus) go to War?

[Eleventh Doctor]

The interpretation that this passage includes leaders like Hitler doesn't make sense. Let's look at some key phrases from the passage. "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil." Hitler was clearly a terror to good works. "For he is God’s minister to you for good." Hitler was clearly not God's minister/servant for good.

[Miss Friendship]

Well maybe so. But I still believe, in spite of all Hitler was doing to destroy, God still was in control of the situation.

[Ashley]

If many Christians had not gone to war, Hitler and his armies would have probably advanced into the UK and eventually North America. So do you think they were wrong in enlisting, feeling it was their duty to protect their families and the free land God gave them?

[Eleventh Doctor]

The issue being discussed is not whether God was still in control but whether Hitler was a minister/servant of God. If he was not then your interpretation comes into question, meaning we come back to the point that a Christian can be a government minister who uses the sword for good.

[Wakko]

@Miss Friendship I'm still confused, where does your whole don't take part in the world's politics come from?

[Ashley]

God was in control of him, meaning that Hitler could not do anything that wasn't foreordained by God. But I wouldn't call him a servant, as being a servant of God implies that you are willing to serve Him.

[Miss Friendship]

If many Christians had not gone to war, Hitler and his armies would have probably advanced into the UK and eventually North America. So do you think they were wrong in enlisting, feeling it was their duty to protect their families and the free land God gave them?

If "Christians" wouldn't have gone to war, we would have missing from history the Crusades, the thirty years war between the Catholics and Protestants, the many wars in France....

Yes, so what about Hitler? Honestly, if Christians had been what they should have been, a lot of Hitlers twisted garbage about promoting Christianity would have fallen flat because the world would have known that Christians don't fight. But we can't change the past. I still say in spite of wicked leaders like Hitler, Christians should still obey Jesus.

-- Fri May 08, 2015 8:53 am --

@Miss Friendship I'm still confused, where does your whole don't take part in the world's politics come from?

The Bible. Heard of it?

[TigerShadow]

Or it's an interpretation of the Bible. Ever heard of one of those?

[Wakko]

If many Christians had not gone to war, Hitler and his armies would have probably advanced into the UK and eventually North America. So do you think they were wrong in enlisting, feeling it was their duty to protect their families and the free land God gave them?

If "Christians" wouldn't have gone to war, we would have missing from history the Crusades, the thirty years war between the Catholics and Protestants, the many wars in France....

Yes, so what about Hitler? Honestly, if Christians had been what they should have been, a lot of Hitlers twisted garbage about promoting Christianity would have fallen flat because the world would have known that Christians don't fight. But we can't change the past. I still say in spite of wicked leaders like Hitler, Christians should still obey Jesus.

-- Fri May 08, 2015 8:53 am --

@Miss Friendship I'm still confused, where does your whole don't take part in the world's politics come from?

The Bible. Heard of it?

No need to get sarcastic and snappy. >_> I meant where specifically?

[Ashley]

But isn't what you believe in worth fighting for? If the government suddenly decided that being a Christian was outlawed, should we not fight back instead of sitting back?

[Miss Friendship]

The issue being discussed is not whether God was still in control but whether Hitler was a minister/servant of God. If he was not then your interpretation comes into question, meaning we come back to the point that a Christian can be a government minister who uses the sword for good.

So you are saying Romans 13 should apply to every leader through history?

Well I do believe a government can use the sword for good. But is that an excuse for Christians to do the same? I don't see that allowance made.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I'm not saying Romans 13 should apply to every leader, I'm saying that there are governments throughout history where this passage can apply and I'm asking why can't Christians be part of that government? If the government can use the sword for good as servants of God why can't Christians, as part of the government, do the same?

[Ashley]

And if more Christians were in the government, most of the horrendous things in the world would not exist (abortion for example).

[Miss Friendship]

But isn't what you believe in worth fighting for? If the government suddenly decided that being a Christian was outlawed, should we not fight back instead of sitting back?

I happen to believe God wouldn't allow that to happen unless He had a purpose for it. A personal observation: persecution purifies the Church. When persecution comes, ever consider the great opportunity we have to be a witness? The world would fight back if their rights were taken away. But we are different.

[Ashley]

Yes, I agree that persecution purifies the Church. But we shouldn't be a doormat either.

[Miss Friendship]

I'm not saying Romans 13 should apply to every leader, I'm saying that there are governments throughout history where this passage can apply and I'm asking why can't Christians be part of that government? If the government can use the sword for good as servants of God why can't Christians, as part of the government, do the same?

Because we are part of Jesus's Kingdom. Not part of the worlds government. Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this world, therefore His servants don't fight or participate in worldly events. I guess if you prefer to be part of the worlds government, go ahead...but understand that Jesus made it clear that there are two kingdoms.

-- Fri May 08, 2015 9:11 am --

@Wakko

All through the New Testament. Its what some call, The doctrine of the two Kingdoms. Go read every verse that talks about the Kingdom of God, or the Kingdom of Heaven, and you will see what I am referring too. (Or rather my interpretation, thanks Tiger)

If you wondered specifically where Jesus forbids the use of the sword...The sermon on the mount.

[Ashley]

So I'm assuming you don't vote, then?

Also, Jesus said to be witnesses in all the world. Can you not be a witness in the gov too?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this world, therefore His servants don't fight or participate in worldly events.

Except for God's ministers, or servants as you said, mentioned in Romans 13. So when Romans 13 says "for he is God’s minister" you think it actually means for he is not God's minister?

[Miss Friendship]

Yes, I agree that persecution purifies the Church. But we shouldn't be a doormat either.

Hey we aren't a doormat! We are part of a Kingdom that we know is going to win. That's nothing to be ashamed about.

@Eleventh

No I believe exactly what it says. The leaders of our government, no matter their religion, are Gods servants. He directs the world through them. That's not saying they are part of His called out separated people. For example God hardened Pharoahs heart, and directed him, but he obviously was not part of the Jews. Gods special nation.

-- Fri May 08, 2015 9:58 am --

So I'm assuming you don't vote, then?

Also, Jesus said to be witnesses in all the world. Can you not be a witness in the gov too?

Right. We don't vote. (I m not judging anyone who does though)

Of course. We are called to witness to everyone. But that doesn't mean we have to somehow get into the government before we can witness to them.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Okay let's redirect the topic a bit then. What about monarchs? Can they not be part of the Kingdom of God since they are rulers here on earth?