What do you think of David J. Stewart and his website?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Very well, I think that yes there were abuses of the veneration of the Saints. But I would distinguish between abuses by the laity and the official doctrine of the church; which is against worship of the Saint. The Anglican church continued the veneration of the Saints without worshiping them.

[Blitz]

Agreed. I mean even I respect the saints despite the fact I don't pray to them. Though what I find intersting is that saints were originally only martyrs. (Early Church history)

[Eleventh Doctor]

Originally they were the martyrs but once Christianity was legalized there were not as many martyrs of blood. Asceticism became the new martyrdom, death to the flesh and the world.

[John Henry]

Originally they were the martyrs but once Christianity was legalized there were not as many martyrs of blood. Asceticism became the new martyrdom, death to the flesh and the world.

Any source?

[Eleventh Doctor]

This is a good source to read on the subject: http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.or ... luence.htm

[John Henry]

This guy came out as a fake. He said he did to mock ultra-conservative Christians.

What mocking?
1. Making fun of people?
2. or Imitating them?

Also, what fake?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Making fun of them, he does not actually believe these things. He made them up to mock ultra-conservative Christians.

[John Henry]

Very interesting. So he's trying to make them look foolish, eh? (I'm an ultra-Conservative Christian - legalistic as you say).

[TigerShadow]

I'm not sure many of the people he was making fun of needed the help, honestly. =/

[John Henry]

Who is Jack Hyles?

[Mr. Yorp]

-

[Eleventh Doctor]

What? What is your point? You really need to do a better job of explaining yourself

[Mr. Yorp]

I think everyone would agree that we shouldn't worship angels.

"And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." (Rev. 19:10).

No, they ask her to pray for them. In the same way you would ask your mother to pray for you.

Mary is dead in case you didn't know...

“...There shall not be found among you anyone ... a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you.” (Deuteronomy 18:9)

“Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.” (Leviticus 19:31)

[Eleventh Doctor]

Okay, so first point you're agreeing with me, good.

Second point, no Mary is not dead, she is in Heaven and is very much alive.

[jehoshaphat]

Asking someone who died to pray for you is not the same as conjuring spirits or consulting mediums. Those in heaven can hear all our prayers.

[Mr. Yorp]

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,

[Eleventh Doctor]

Yet St. Paul talks about the Great Cloud of Witnesses who watch us run our race.

[SirWhit]

Angels?

[Mr. Yorp]

How will the dead be raptured if they're not dead?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Well first off no one is going to be raptured so that solves that. But more importantly time in Heaven is not linear.