Creationism or Evolutionism.

[Wodfamchocsod]

The whole point of this debate is that Eleventh does believe in Genesis; he just doesn't believe that it should be interpreted entirely literally the way you do, and you feel the need to dispute his interpretation. It's worth noting that a day to God is not necessarily like a day to us; He did not necessarily create the universe in seven literal days.

I just wanted to comment on this. God wrote this to us, not for Himself. I think He meant 6 literal days. This is for us, not for God.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Okay, if you think He meant six literal days that's a legitimate viewpoint. I'm just asking you not to say it's the only obvious viewpoint and I'm crazy if I don't accept it.

[Wodfamchocsod]

We're still arguing the meanings of literal, figurative, and symbolic because you still don't understand their meaning. We can believe the Bible in it's entirety without taking every word literally. I am not taking away or adding to any part of the Bible. I am interpreting it in a way that disagrees with you. Figurative and symbolic passages can still be inspired by God, profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness. I mean look at the parables Christ told during His earthly ministry, were those literal stories?

Take it up with Carl Linnaeus.

I do think I have answered your question.

They were examples, Christs stories, that proved a literal meaning.
So...do you think God did not create Adam and Eve?
Where have you answered my question?

-- Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:09 am --

Okay, if you think He meant six literal days that's a legitimate viewpoint. I'm just asking you not to say it's the only obvious viewpoint and I'm crazy if I don't accept it.

I think your viewpoint isn't completely crazy. At least you acknowledge a Creator, that's good. But I don't think it's an obvious viewpoint because God means what He says.

[Eleventh Doctor]

They proved a literal point using figurative or symbolic language, that is what makes something figurative or symbolic. If I am trying to say that I went grocery shopping today I could either say "I went grocery shopping today." The literal way. Or I could use more figurative language, for whatever reason, and say something like. "Today I traveled across the Wasteland of Suburbia in my metal steed Toyota to procure a glorious feast for myself." What I just wrote is not literal, it is using figurative language. The Bible uses figurative language and so in parts is not literal.

I think He probably did.

I think God created the universe and everything in it out of nothing, I think that is what Genesis tells us for sure. As for a literal six day creations, not so clear. But do you think God created every animal exactly as they are today? I think TigerShadow that God created the universe and the earth but I don't think it was exactly what the world looks like today, things are different, animals are different, humans have adapted and evolved to fit new situations. That does not conflict with God creating everything out of nothing.

[Wodfamchocsod]

They proved a literal point using figurative or symbolic language, that is what makes something figurative or symbolic. If I am trying to say that I went grocery shopping today I could either say "I went grocery shopping today." The literal way. Or I could use more figurative language, for whatever reason, and say something like. "Today I traveled across the Wasteland of Suburbia in my metal steed Toyota to procure a glorious feast for myself." What I just wrote is not literal, it is using figurative language. The Bible uses figurative language and so in parts is not literal.

I think He probably did.

I think God created the universe and everything in it out of nothing, I think that is what Genesis tells us for sure. As for a literal six day creations, not so clear. But do you think God created every animal exactly as they are today? I think TigerShadow that God created the universe and the earth but I don't think it was exactly what the world looks like today, things are different, animals are different, humans have adapted and evolved to fit new situations. That does not conflict with God creating everything out of nothing.

Ok. One question: if you believe in evolution, then what does Genesis 1 & 2 mean to you? Random verses in the Bible?

[Eleventh Doctor]

It means to me that God created the universe out of nothing. There's probably also a lot of symbolism and meaning I'm missing. They're not random verses.

[Wodfamchocsod]

It means to me that God created the universe out of nothing. There's probably also a lot of symbolism and meaning I'm missing. They're not random verses.

So...how do you believe God created the universe and everything in it out of nothing (I believe that too) AND put evolution into the mix as well?

[Eleventh Doctor]

It's part of the natural world, to me that's like asking how did God create everything and put gravity into the mix?

[Wodfamchocsod]

It's part of the natural world, to me that's like asking how did God create everything and put gravity into the mix?

Maybe, have you thought about this? Maybe God created gravity!
I need to go now. I'll be back tomorrow.

[Eleventh Doctor]

And maybe He created evolution.

See you tomorrow.

[truAIOfan]

Where do you get 4,000 years? Also Christ was born close to 2043 years ago, we don't know the specific date, and died 33 years after He was born.

I am a Young Earth believer.
The Bible says that the Earth is only 6,000 years. In Genesis Chapter 5, there are names listed with the age they were when they had kids. In Genesis Chapter 11,(verses 10-32) again there are the ages of the men when they had kids. Add those ages together from Adam to Abraham, and it equalls about 2,000 years. Scientists agree that from Abraham to Jesus was aproximately 2,000 years. Jesus was born close to 0 on the timeline, which was approximately 2,000 years ago.

[Eleventh Doctor]

So it's important that scientist agree on how long it was between Abraham and Jesus?

Also do you want to read anything else from this thread?

[Wodfamchocsod]

Where do you get 4,000 years? Also Christ was born close to 2043 years ago, we don't know the specific date, and died 33 years after He was born.

I am a Young Earth believer.
The Bible says that the Earth is only 6,000 years. In Genesis Chapter 5, there are names listed with the age they were when they had kids. In Genesis Chapter 11,(verses 10-32) again there are the ages of the men when they had kids. Add those ages together from Adam to Abraham, and it equalls about 2,000 years. Scientists agree that from Abraham to Jesus was aproximately 2,000 years. Jesus was born close to 0 on the timeline, which was approximately 2,000 years ago.

I'd agree with you, trueaiofan.
11th Doc,
One problem with God creating the earth over a period of thousands of years is that the plants would have died before the sun came around. How do you explain that?
One more thing. Since the wages of sin are death, there would have been sin and death before Adam, according to your view. How would you explain that, since apparently sin entered the world before Adam and Eve "fell?"

[Eleventh Doctor]

You would have to explain how death didn't occur even if it was a literal six days. There are micro organisms and several species of insects that live less than a day, how did they not die? And plants die all the time even if they are getting sun and water.

[Wodfamchocsod]

You would have to explain how death didn't occur even if it was a literal six days. There are micro organisms and several species of insects that live less than a day, how did they not die? And plants die all the time even if they are getting sun and water.

Actually, no. You would have to explain how death didn't occur through evolution, because sin entered after Adam, and as a result, death. You are avoiding my question.
Plants did without the sun. It's a scientific fact. They write that in evolutionist textbooks.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I'm not avoiding your question, I'm asking questions to clarify our discussion. Did microorganisms exist in the garden of Eden?

[Wodfamchocsod]

I'm not avoiding your question, I'm asking questions to clarify our discussion. Did microorganisms exist in the garden of Eden?

Yeah...God created them.

[Eleventh Doctor]

So did they die before the fall?

[Wodfamchocsod]

So did they die before the fall?

Of course not. Unless God wanted them to...
You still haven't answered my question about death and evolution.
Theistic evolution means God evolution. How can you say that? That means God used death to create the world, when the fall was after Adam??

[Eleventh Doctor]

I'm not saying evolution happened before the Fall.