Creationism or Evolutionism.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I believe in evolution and that God created the universe out of nothing, hence the big bang.

[Wodfamchocsod]

It says in The Bible, in fact, the very first thing God says, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. It takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe in creationism.

[TigerShadow]

That's a great talking point, but the thing is, if you can't elaborate on why it takes more faith, you just sound like a cliché. That's a conclusion, and a legitimate one, but you sound like you're just repeating what other people have elaborated upon.

Honestly, in regards to the whole "old Earth vs. young Earth" and "did God create through evolution or not" thing, I'm really not sure why it matters...? I mean, I get why people want to discuss, but I don't get why Christians tear into each other over something that can hardly be considered a matter essential to salvation.

[Blitz]

Actually it goes beyond that. If you are old Earth you also don't take the Bible very literally.

[TigerShadow]

Not necessarily. Just because you don't take the Bible entirely literally in one instance doesn't mean that you don't take it literally in others. There are parts of the Bible that really shouldn't be taken literally—I highly doubt that the Antichrist is going to be an actual animal with the head of a leopard, the mouth of a lion, and the feet of a bear. And just because you don't take the Bible entirely literally doesn't necessarily make you a bad Christian; it means that you interpret it differently.

[Blitz]

I take the Bible symbolically when it says it is symbolical.

[Wodfamchocsod]

That's a great talking point, but the thing is, if you can't elaborate on why it takes more faith, you just sound like a cliché. That's a conclusion, and a legitimate one, but you sound like you're just repeating what other people have elaborated upon.

Honestly, in regards to the whole "old Earth vs. young Earth" and "did God create through evolution or not" thing, I'm really not sure why it matters...? I mean, I get why people want to discuss, but I don't get why Christians tear into each other over something that can hardly be considered a matter essential to salvation.

It's true, even though it may be a cliché. I mean, The Bible clearly talks about the Flood, and there is evidence all around us. The Grand Canyon, for instance. If you track back from the Bible, scholars have concluded the earth is about 6,000 years old.
I take the Bible literally. Why shouldn't we? It's Gods Word to us.
(Now, granted, it's obvious the anti Christ isn't going to be exactly as you guys described it. Duh.)

[Wakko]

Actually it goes beyond that. If you are old Earth you also don't take the Bible very literally.

Genesis is written unlike any other part in the Bible, it's written more as a chant or a poem. So it's quite possible that Genesis 1 is symbolic rather than to be taken literally. I consider myself to be an Old Earth Creationist. Also, I agree with you Tiger.

[Wodfamchocsod]

Actually it goes beyond that. If you are old Earth you also don't take the Bible very literally.

Genesis is written unlike any other part in the Bible, it's written more as a chant or a poem. So it's quite possible that Genesis 1 is symbolic rather than to be taken literally. I consider myself to be an Old Earth Creationist. Also, I agree with you Tiger.

ITS GODS WORD. If God gave it to us, I'd say it's pretty important. In fact, the first words God said stated that He was the one who created the heavens and the earth.
What do you mean by symbolic and literal?

[Eleventh Doctor]

I take the Bible symbolically when it says it is symbolical.

Where does the Bible lay out when it's being symbolic and when it isn't?

If you track back from the Bible, scholars have concluded the earth is about 6,000 years old.

How did they do that and why does that conflict with all the scientific data about the age of the earth?

I take the Bible literally.

Every single part of it? Or do you take some symbolically?
Symbolically meaning it has a different meaning, so for instance the Bible says a thousand years are like a day to the Lord, is that the literal meaning of that passage? The Psalms have symbolic meaning for example: Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler. Does this mean God will deliver us from literal snares or figurative snares?

[TigerShadow]

That's a great talking point, but the thing is, if you can't elaborate on why it takes more faith, you just sound like a cliché. That's a conclusion, and a legitimate one, but you sound like you're just repeating what other people have elaborated upon.

Honestly, in regards to the whole "old Earth vs. young Earth" and "did God create through evolution or not" thing, I'm really not sure why it matters...? I mean, I get why people want to discuss, but I don't get why Christians tear into each other over something that can hardly be considered a matter essential to salvation.

It's true, even though it may be a cliché.

Okay, but how it's true is the question I was raising, not whether or not you can continue to state that it's true. You've stated a talking point and claimed that it's true, but you haven't actually enumerated multiple pieces of solid, factual evidence with which to make that conclusion. If you cannot do this, you have no business making a claim, even if that claim is correct.

[Wodfamchocsod]

That's a great talking point, but the thing is, if you can't elaborate on why it takes more faith, you just sound like a cliché. That's a conclusion, and a legitimate one, but you sound like you're just repeating what other people have elaborated upon.

Honestly, in regards to the whole "old Earth vs. young Earth" and "did God create through evolution or not" thing, I'm really not sure why it matters...? I mean, I get why people want to discuss, but I don't get why Christians tear into each other over something that can hardly be considered a matter essential to salvation.

It's true, even though it may be a cliché.

Okay, but how it's true is the question I was raising, not whether or not you can continue to state that it's true. You've stated a talking point and claimed that it's true, but you haven't actually enumerated multiple pieces of solid, factual evidence with which to make that conclusion. If you cannot do this, you have no business making a claim, even if that claim is correct.

Ok. If you think animals or plants evolved without God, there is something seriously wrong with that. In Genesis, it says that God created everything. I think we should believe God and not man. Therefore, it takes more faith to believe in something man has created rather than God.
Eleventh Doctor, I think there is no excuse for not taking Genesis literally. Why else would God put it in there?
If you look at all the accounts Genesis through Matthew, you will see the earth from there is around 4,000. Christ died 2014 years ago. Do the math. 6,000.
I think it's pretty bad not to take the very first book God put in the Bible literally (and for that matter, any book).

[Eleventh Doctor]

Why did God put Psalms or Proverbs in the Bible? Is there no use for the figurative or symbolic?

Where do you get 4,000 years? Also Christ was born close to 2043 years ago, we don't know the specific date, and died 33 years after He was born.

[Wodfamchocsod]

Why did God put Psalms or Proverbs in the Bible? Is there no use for the figurative or symbolic?

Where do you get 4,000 years? Also Christ was born close to 2043 years ago, we don't know the specific date, and died 33 years after He was born.

Solomon and David simply wrote in a different sense of poetry. The truth in there remains. Literally.
Look at the genealogy records, the flood (man I hope you believe in that), Matthew records. If you study it closely you will come up around 4,000 years. Bible scholars have proved it.
Umm...it has been proven (even the Muslims will admit this) that Jesus did live here around 2000 years ago? How else do you explain the whole A.D. Concept?
There is evidence all around us for a young earth. Christians who try to mix evolution and creation just try to blend in with the popular concepts.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I do not think that word means what you think it means. Poetry uses symbolism, which can still be true. Something doesn't need to be literal to be true.

I believe in the flood. Some scholars have come up with 4,000 years but there's no evidence those genealogies are complete or that they're to be used that way.

The A.D. concept is a creation of the Julian and Gregorian calendars and wasn't in wide use until 800. There have been several religious and civil calenders used around the world since the time of Christ.

There is more evidence for an old earth, how do you explain radioactive dating and star light to name two common examples.

[Wodfamchocsod]

I do not think that word means what you think it means. Poetry uses symbolism, which can still be true. Something doesn't need to be literal to be true.

I believe in the flood. Some scholars have come up with 4,000 years but there's no evidence those genealogies are complete or that they're to be used that way.

The A.D. concept is a creation of the Julian and Gregorian calendars and wasn't in wide use until 800. There have been several religious and civil calenders used around the world since the time of Christ.

There is more evidence for an old earth, how do you explain radioactive dating and star light to name two common examples.

Thank goodness you believe in the flood! . We are buddies now. Kind of.
Ok? I'm still confused about your meaning of symbolism.
So? It is common knowledge A.D. Started 2014 years ago after Jesus.
Ok...give me your thoughts on this radioactive dating and star light.
To believe humans evolved pretty much denies Gods ability to create.
Also, of we were made in the image of God, then why did we evolve?

[TigerShadow]

Not to be presumptuous and answer for the good Doctor, but symbolism is, essentially, something used to represent something else, and literarily speaking it is usually a concrete object representing an abstract concept. I'm not sure if describing the Old Earth interpretation of Genesis as "symbolic" is the right word; perhaps "figuratively" would be more accurate?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Duchess, I could not have done a better job myself. Indeed Old Earth views Genesis as more figurative than symbolic.

No, it's not common knowledge A.D. started 2014 years after Jesus. Because we didn't have this calendar until roughly 800 years after Christ, so guessing how much time had passed before was just that, a guess. We know roughly give or take about 50 years when Christ was born. But that doesn't really matter.

Radioactive dating dates the earth at millions of years old, how do you explain that?

If the earth were only 6,000 years old we wouldn't see any stars. It would take the light from the stars longer to reach us.

To believe in evolution in no way denies God's ability to create, I mean we have all kinds of different dog breeds than we did say even 300 years ago. Does that mean God didn't create the first dog? Also I assume you believe God created just Adam and Eve right? If so how did we get all the different human ethnicity that we have today with different skin colors and physical characteristics?

What does being made in the image of God mean?

[Wakko]

Actually it goes beyond that. If you are old Earth you also don't take the Bible very literally.

Genesis is written unlike any other part in the Bible, it's written more as a chant or a poem. So it's quite possible that Genesis 1 is symbolic rather than to be taken literally. I consider myself to be an Old Earth Creationist. Also, I agree with you Tiger.

ITS GODS WORD. If God gave it to us, I'd say it's pretty important. In fact, the first words God said stated that He was the one who created the heavens and the earth.
What do you mean by symbolic and literal?

I never said The Bible wasn't important, I said that the whole Old Earth versus New Earth argument wasn't important. >.>
As Eleven and Tiger said figurative is actually a better word for it, not symbolic, and here's the definitions.
Figurative:

Of the nature of or involving a figure of speech, especially a metaphor; metaphorical and not literal: The word “head” has several figurative senses, as in “She's the head of the company.”.
Synonyms: metaphorical, not literal, symbolic.

Literal:

In accordance with, involving, or being the primary or strict meaning of the word or words; not figurative or metaphorical:
"The literal meaning of a word."

[Wodfamchocsod]

Duchess, I could not have done a better job myself. Indeed Old Earth views Genesis as more figurative than symbolic.

No, it's not common knowledge A.D. started 2014 years after Jesus. Because we didn't have this calendar until roughly 800 years after Christ, so guessing how much time had passed before was just that, a guess. We know roughly give or take about 50 years when Christ was born. But that doesn't really matter.

A very educated guess. Not a billion years difference guess.
Radioactive dating dates the earth at millions of years old, how do you explain that?

If the earth were only 6,000 years old we wouldn't see any stars. It would take the light from the stars longer to reach us.

To believe in evolution in no way denies God's ability to create, I mean we have all kinds of different dog breeds than we did say even 300 years ago. Does that mean God didn't create the first dog? Also I assume you believe God created just Adam and Eve right? If so how did we get all the different human ethnicity that we have today with different skin colors and physical characteristics?

What does being made in the image of God mean?

Says who about radioactive dating?
What if God simply created the stars with the light showing? It says the moon and stars rule the night in the Bible.
Being made in the image of God means exactly what it says. If you believe God did not create us, we weren't made in the image of God. In another post you mentioned we were. It sounds like you are contradicting yourself.
Why don't you take the Bible literally like any other book?
Do you think the fossils point to the flood or to an old earth?
Why don't you just believe what God told us in Genesis? It explains it all!!