Chatter in the Booths

[TigerShadow]

while I was trying to watch Everything Wrong with Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

So...you were trying to watch the whole movie?

[GJFH]

Ooh good one Tiger Shadow
The movies shall never compare.

[Helios]

while I was trying to watch Everything Wrong with Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

So...you were trying to watch the whole movie?

LOL No, it's a video pointing out everything wrong with it. Not the whole movie, more like 14 minutes of it.

[TigerShadow]

while I was trying to watch Everything Wrong with Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

So...you were trying to watch the whole movie?

LOL No, it's a video pointing out everything wrong with it. Not the whole movie, more like 14 minutes of it.

I know about the Everything Wrong With series; I just assumed that they saved themselves the trouble by putting the whole movie online.

[Helios]

I know about the Everything Wrong With series; I just assumed that they saved themselves the trouble by putting the whole movie online.

...I think something went over my head in your joke. *cringes* I'm...not sure why they would put the whole movie online? Unless it was really awful?

[TigerShadow]

Unless it was really awful?

Yep. As far as I'm concerned, it's one of the worst of the films. Critics loved it, but I personally think it's really bad for a variety of reasons.

[Helios]

Do tell! I'd love to know what you think is wrong with it. I think on Honest Trailers it's listed as the one everyone loves, but I have literally no opinion on the quality of HP because I've never watched any of'em.

[Doll]

The number of pets in our house doubled. Now we have Stan the gecko and Ferdinand the fish.

[Helios]

I had this epiphany a few days ago while reading Strange Journey Back. It was something so obvious I can't believe I didn't realize it before.

Mr. Whitaker is Batman.

No really, he is! I've always put the two of them together in my mind without even thinking about it, and then it was like, wow! I have seen the light! (the bat-light, that is)

[TigerShadow]

Do tell! I'd love to know what you think is wrong with it. I think on Honest Trailers it's listed as the one everyone loves, but I have literally no opinion on the quality of HP because I've never watched any of'em.

Alright

-cracks neck from side to side-

LET'S DO THIS.

(This isn't anger directed at you, Helios; it's just going to come across as angry because I'm really passionate about this story and I hate how the movies mutilated it. Spoiler'd for those who don't care about Harry Potter and because it's crazy long.)

There were already traces of adaptation troubles in the first two movies, but at least in SS and CoS, the director actually cared about staying true to the story. Alfonso Cuaron, the director for PoA, clearly cared more about being *~artsy~* than about an actual adaptation, and it detracted from telling the actual story.

So, let me get this straight: we can have an extended Knight Bus sequence with an annoying shrunken head, we can have a frog choir singing the Three Witches' chant from Macbeth (??? okay), we can have some weird sequence in the Gryffindor dorms with special effects candy, we can have more shrunken heads in Hogsmeade, we can have this ridiculously over-the-top scene at the Whomping Willow with Hermione squealing and getting thrown around (and we gotta make sure she lands on Harry, just so everyone knows that the movies prioritize teasing this bland relationship that was never hinted at in the books), and we can have shot after shot after shot of the Whomping Willow doing things to signify the changing of the seasons (which was...not a significant motif in the books? don't really see why it's necessary here). We can waste endless amounts of time on junk like that, but actually explain to us who Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs are and coherently explain the Marauders' backstory in the Shrieking Shack? Nooooo. People who only watched the movies have to take it on trust that there's an actual story in there, because the movies sure weren't going to explain it.

There's also the more important matter of gutting the characters, who as far as I'm concerned are the most important part of the Potter story. Hermione is the worst offender, and frankly, it all starts before we even get to the content of the movie itself, with the fact that they couldn't be bothered to so much as give Emma Watson a wig. This is the movie that started the "bushy hair = princess curls" trend, and every time I look at movie-3-onward!Hermione, I get the overwhelming urge to vomit.

Here's the thing about Hermione, guys—she does not prioritize her looks. She has bushy hair and the one time she bothers to deal with it is for a special occasion. It's wild and frizzy and unmanageable, and is the subject of mockery by her peers. She doesn't wear particularly fashionable clothes, and she's not the kind of person who would whine about what her hair looks like from the back. That's what makes her so relatable—she doesn't have to be pretty; her worth comes from the compassionate, clever, and courageous person that she is. But accentuating future model Emma Watson with fashionable Muggle clothes and pretty hair and generally making her look so "made up" was the filmmakers' first mistake, because it's clear that they didn't understand Hermione. They understood marketable female protagonists. So we haven't even gotten to the meat of the movie before Hermione's character has been savaged.

Now all of that said, a lot of people (yes, myself included) hate how Hermione looks because it subverts one of the greatest things about the character. But even if Emma had been given a wig and not been given more than the bare minimum of stage makeup, Hermione's portrayal in the films would still have been an insult to the original character, and it starts in full force with this one because Hermione is way too perfect in this. And really, what it leads to is the other characters getting dragged down with her, because when the story gets warped to suit Hermione's purposes, the characters and their relationships get butchered.

In the book, Hermione gets into fights with both Harry and Ron—the first time because she tattles to McGonagall in a panic because Harry's been sent a broomstick anonymously and she thinks it's from someone who wants to kill him, the second time because it looks like her cat Crookshanks ate Ron's rat Scabbers and she refuses to apologize even when all the evidence points toward this being the case. These reveal important things about her character: that she'll go behind someone's back or over their head if she thinks it's all for the best (she never expresses that particular suspicion to either of the boys before running to McGonagall) and that she has a very difficult time admitting when she's wrong to the point of alienating her friends.

They also reveal something about her relationship with Harry: that she isn't just Harry's bestest-y bestest best friend in all of bestie-dom; he disagrees with her and gets mad at her and refuses to speak to her and she doesn't try to apologize in order to bridge the gap with him, either. He sticks by Ron in the fight over Crookshanks and Scabbers because he feels that Ron is in the right, and he still has fun hanging out with Ron (while in the next book, he expresses agitation with constantly hanging around with Hermione when he's feuding with Ron because hanging out with Hermione is much more studious and boring).

The movies didn't really seem to care very much about this. Look, I understand that things simply got cut for time, and since Quidditch wasn't really a big deal from this movie forward, I can forgive the Firebolt thing being squished into the end. What I can't forgive is the way the Crookshanks-Scabbers argument is framed. Throughout the book, Crookshanks repeatedly attacks Scabbers, so Ron has every reason to believe that Crookshanks finally caught him and ate him, and all the evidence leads even Harry to think so. But in the movie, Hermione is presented as being in the right when she blows Ron's concerns off with a "Ronald has lost his rat", and she's then immediately vindicated in the next scene when they find Scabbers alive and well in Hagrid's hut (and then the film has Ron act like a jerk about it to her for good measure, which again did not happen).

In other words, the movie took Hermione's failure to keep her pet from attacking and killing her friend's pet and framed Hermione as the tragic little victim. "But," people will say, "they couldn't have dragged the argument out that long! They had time constraints!" Sure didn't stop them from all the time-wasting nonsense above. And by cutting out the bulk of that argument, they also cut out the bigger picture of what that argument represents: that Hermione is the kind of person who refuses to admit that she's wrong, and she alienates her friends because of it. And it also cuts something important about Ron, too: he's furious with Hermione over the whole thing, largely because (as he says himself) that she'll never admit she's wrong and she's not even acting like she's sorry, but when Hermione apologizes, he immediately forgives her and even starts trying to mitigate the issue by talking about how old Scabbers was and maybe he'll get an owl next time. All he wanted was an apology he was entitled to, and once he got it, he was satisfied. In the movies, though, he's much more unflatteringly petty.

Connect this to the most infamous scene, at least to haters of this film. In the book's version of the Shrieking Shack event, when the Trio wind up in there with Sirius Black, Ron—whose leg has been broken and who's facing a man whom he believes is a mass murderer—declares that "if you want to kill Harry, you'll have to kill us, too!", and he's ready and willing to make that sacrifice without hesitation (an act that Sirius directly compares to the kinds of things he and his friends were willing to do for each other). It's one of his greatest moments and demonstrates his perseverance, loyalty, and self-sacrifice.

In the movies, Hermione says this line, while Ron just sits there being scared. That's not a change you make because you're pressed for time, guys. It's literally the exact same line Ron says in the book. It would have taken, what, maybe a couple of seconds more for Ron to lunge forward as best he could, put himself between Harry and Black, and deliver that line? No, it's given to Hermione.

So to put it in perspective, Hermione's greatest failing in the book—stubborn refusal to admit that she could be wrong and rightly angering her friend as a result—is directly reassigned to Ron, and Ron's greatest moment in the book is directly reassigned to Hermione.

Lastly, to fully substantiate just how little the filmmakers cared about Ron, I point to the classroom scene where Snape puts down Hermione (although Snape's portrayal in the films is a whole other can of worms) for being an "insufferable know-it-all". In the book, Ron immediately fires up at once and snarls at Snape that "You asked the question and she knows the answer! Why ask if you don't want to be told?" But in the movie, it's "He's right, you know".

...Really? You want to devote the rest of that scene to Draco Malfoy making fun of Harry instead of showing Ron's fierce loyalty to his friend and instead running him down as a character? Are you serious?

There's a reason for this, and it's a simple one. Steve Kloves, the screenwriter, has admitted that Hermione is his favorite character. He claims it's as a result of her social awkwardness and bossy behavior as much as it is her intelligence and strength. But how can it be, when he refuses to actually write her that way? How can she be socially awkward when she's never seen doing things like trying to detract from a classmate's grief over her dead pet in order to prove a point, or refusing to admit that her cat could have done a thing that a lot of cats do and killed and eaten her best friend's pet?

Why does Hermione do things like be the only one to reach out to an angry and upset Harry in Hogsmeade when he finds out part of the secret about Black? Why is she the one clearly closer to Harry when everyone's crowded at his bedside after the Quidditch match? Why doesn't Harry have any of these moments with Ron, but plenty with Hermione? Why is Ron's character so underwhelming compared to Hermione's? Because she's Kloves's special little pet, so she gets all the personality and all the awesome moments with none of the flaws or failings to have earned them. She gets to have the special friendship with Harry while Ron plays third wheel, even though Ron is canonically the character with whom Harry enjoys spending more one-on-one time and who understands him better. It's all about making sure that we, the audience, know that Ron doesn't matter and Hermione's the real heroine and gosh, why isn't she the main protagonist, and how could she have ended up with that yucky old ginger, anyway?

TL;DR: I hate PoA because PoA was the first movie in the series to start showing where the filmmakers' priorities truly lay—not in faithfully portraying this story, and not in staying true to the characters and their relationships, but instead, making sure that Kloves's precious princess got everything she wanted and looked pretty on the side, and making sure that everyone started seeing Harry/Hermione as the Twoo Wuv it was never going to be (which would have been patently obvious by, oh, I don't know, the fourth book, which was released before the first movie was and certainly before the third movie went into production). And he got what he wanted—a nice chunk of the Harry Potter fandom worships at the feet of Saint Hermione of Granger, Magical Plastic Bookworm Barbie who can never put a foot wrong, and rips Ron to shreds for daring to ever question her and her speshul snowflakeness. (And for not being outrageously talented at everything, which is a really nice way of furthering the incredibly toxic idea that you're only worthy of talented people if you're equally good at everything you do.)

He also got a number of fans who loathe Hermione because of this kind of creator shilling, who might have liked her a lot better if she wasn't put on a pedestal as the exemplar of all that is good and pure in the world, and who are sick and tired of characters like Ron and Ginny being constantly run down to make her look better. He got a number of fans who see Hermione Granger—frizzy-haired, buck-toothed, plain Jane, bossy, insensitive, controlling, obsessive, compassionate, intelligent, courageous, and loyal Hermione Granger—and don't even recognize her on the screen. Because rather than represent this female character in all the ways that make her truly strong, they turn her into yet another trite, boring example of positive discrimination.

And it's sad. Because Hermione and Ron and their respective stories deserve better.

[Helios]

Even tho I am far from a Potter fan, I totally empathize with your feelings about Hermione's portrayal. I mean, after reading your view on things, I'm starting to feel angry at the filmmakers myself! And it's not even my fandom. But I have been watching movie clips recently, and yeah, I can see how they ruined Hermione.

One thing I never understood is why people keep shipping Hermione with Harry. It feels far to cliche for the hero to get the main girl, and Ron ending up with Hermione just seems so much more satisfying (besides which, I think Harry and Ginny look really cute together). And if Harry had gone with Hermione, who would Ron have married?

[Doll]

Rosy and I cosplayed as the Pines Twins today:

[PennyBassett]

Ugh! Yes! I hate it when the trolls have their little fiestas down below my feet! And don't even get me started on the bowling parties! It's practically impossible to sleep at night!

[TigerShadow]

Um...what?

Belle, that cosplay is super cute! Y'all make amazing Pines twins. Have you ever considered also cosplaying the Grunkles?

One thing I never understood is why people keep shipping Hermione with Harry. It feels far to cliche for the hero to get the main girl, and Ron ending up with Hermione just seems so much more satisfying (besides which, I think Harry and Ginny look really cute together). And if Harry had gone with Hermione, who would Ron have married?

To be honest, I...really don't get the militant H/Hr mentality? Like, Harry never treats Hermione as being any more special to him than Ron (and in fact mentions that he really doesn't like spending constant alone time with her because it bores him so much). He also never really argues with Hermione, and Hermione is clearly one of those characters who thrives on debating everything in sight, a trait which Ron also has in spades. So like...why would you insist on pushing two characters together who clearly don't provide each other with the things that fulfill them as people?

(Plus, Ginny is amazing. You really should read the books; the world is so much more charming and vibrant, and Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Ginny are all infinitely cooler and more interesting.)

[Doll]

Belle, that cosplay is super cute! Y'all make amazing Pines twins. Have you ever considered also cosplaying the Grunkles?

Well, I think we would fight over who would be which, as Ford is both of our favorites...

[TigerShadow]

Y'all have great taste, then; I love Ford. =D

[Helios]

Ugh! Yes! I hate it when the trolls have their little fiestas down below my feet! And don't even get me started on the bowling parties! It's practically impossible to sleep at night!

I used to believe they came out at night to eat all my hidden candy and leave crumbs all over the floor. This would explain why the floor was always dirty in the morning. They also tie knots in my hair when I sleep, which is why it's so tangled in the morning.
The bowling parties are really taking things too far. *channels her inner Greg* We need to call the Exterminator!

(Plus, Ginny is amazing. You really should read the books; the world is so much more charming and vibrant, and Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Ginny are all infinitely cooler and more interesting.)

I am actually thinking of reading the books now (heresy!). And the more parts of the movies I watch, the more convinced I am that the books are truly superior. Also, did the books have that weird dance scene in Hallows Part 1 where Harry was trying to cheer Hermione up? Cause that part was just...awkward. *cringes*

[TigerShadow]

*channels her inner Greg* We need to call the Exterminator!

Yooooo

(Plus, Ginny is amazing. You really should read the books; the world is so much more charming and vibrant, and Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Ginny are all infinitely cooler and more interesting.)

I am actually thinking of reading the books now (heresy!). And the more parts of the movies I watch, the more convinced I am that the books are truly superior. Also, did the books have that weird dance scene in Hallows Part 1 where Harry was trying to cheer Hermione up? Cause that part was just...awkward. *cringes*

You gotta read the books, man. Don't worry; once you're halfway through Sorcerer's Stone, I'll be here to bombard you with every conceivable book-related question.

And spoilers, but no, that was a 100% movie fabrication. Not to give too much away, but they wouldn't have even thought of doing something like that in the book.

[Blitz]

*Just turned 17*

I don't feel any different.

Its been forever, since I read Harry Potter.

[Miss Friendship]

Its been forever, since I read Harry Potter.

Same here =000