The Rapture..

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FlyingRider wrote:So ( not that it matters) i believe that there will be a tribulation and a rapture. I believe that we will go through trials and the world is going to get pretty bad before God takes us out. But i also believe that after be are taken its going to get alot worse.
I believe in the millennium and the rapture...it doesn't matter what exact words we call them.
So...do you flying rider believe we will be in the tribulation? Or that Christ will come for his church before the tribulation? I believe Christ will come before.
Thank you, 11th Doc.
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Eleventh Doctor
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Thank you? I wrote out two paragraphs, are you saying you agree and that this isn't so obvious? Or something else?
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:Thank you? I wrote out two paragraphs, are you saying you agree and that this isn't so obvious? Or something else?
Ummm...yeah. I believe the Rapture will one day take place, but you're right that others might call the rapture something else. Is this what you're talking about?
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Eleventh Doctor
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No, I'm still saying the rapture won't happen and people aren't calling it by another name. I was giving reasons in my paragraph for why it isn't plainly obvious that there will be a rapture.
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:No, I'm still saying the rapture won't happen and people aren't calling it by another name. I was giving reasons in my paragraph for why it isn't plainly obvious that there will be a rapture.
Oh. Too bad, I thought maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me or something.
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It's highly unlikely that if any number of people believed something that it would have gone unwritten. And it is important to study what was written back then, the writers were closer to the times of Christ, the Apostles, and those to whom the Bible was written to directly.

Also as I've said before, if this really is such an obvious thing then it would only make sense that people had written about it before. There are writings from the first few centuries of the Church on every subject in the Bible, despite your belief, the church did not suffer a dark age where nothing of importance was written. In fact these first few centuries of the Church produced some of the most important writings on key doctrines such as the Trinity and the nature of Christ's Incarnation. It would be highly unusual if something that is so obvious wasn't written about, I'm not saying it should change your belief or that they are more important than the Bible but it should give you pause and maybe realize this isn't so obvious.
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:It's highly unlikely that if any number of people believed something that it would have gone unwritten. And it is important to study what was written back then, the writers were closer to the times of Christ, the Apostles, and those to whom the Bible was written to directly.

Also as I've said before, if this really is such an obvious thing then it would only make sense that people had written about it before. There are writings from the first few centuries of the Church on every subject in the Bible, despite your belief, the church did not suffer a dark age where nothing of importance was written. In fact these first few centuries of the Church produced some of the most important writings on key doctrines such as the Trinity and the nature of Christ's Incarnation. It would be highly unusual if something that is so obvious wasn't written about, I'm not saying it should change your belief or that they are more important than the Bible but it should give you pause and maybe realize this isn't so obvious.
Ok, there might have been, but they might not have been "recorded." And so what? This is Gods Word we are talking about, and I really don't consider your point a valid one, especially since there are Bible verses to prove you wrong.
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Why would they not have been recorded? We have so many writings from that time, why would this belief fall through the cracks until so much later?

I don't consider your point valid since the Bible verses don't prove you right, my point is now just as valid, i.e. has just as much backing, as yours.
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:Why would they not have been recorded? We have so many writings from that time, why would this belief fall through the cracks until so much later?

I don't consider your point valid since the Bible verses don't prove you right, my point is now just as valid, i.e. has just as much backing, as yours.
Like I said, there ARE probably recordings. This is such a poor point I can't believe we are still on it!! Why would that matter?
Eleventh Doc, I cannot believe your words. Bible verses don't prove me right? (I could understand if you said/meant my interpretation, however). This is God-breathed scripture we are talking about. You're saying Gods words don't prove me right?
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I'm saying, and have always said, your interpretation doesn't prove you right. I'm saying, and have always said, that if your interpretation was correct then it is more than likely that someone would have written about it before the 19th century. If there probably are recording then where are they? Why did this idea just suddenly appear out of nowhere?
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The point Eleventh is making is that your interpretation of the Rapture is not as obvious as you say it is, or it would have been well-documented by scholars better-versed than you probably are in Scripture and in Biblical scholarship in the 2000+ years between the time of those writings and now.

Also, your wording sounds pretty arrogant—"God's word proves me right, and it is unfathomable to assume that any other alternative exists". The Bible doesn't exist to prove you right or Eleventh wrong.
it's not about 'deserve'. it's about what you believe. and i believe in love
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I'm sorry if I sounded arrogant. Forgive me.
I still think that it really doesn't matter about books men wrote. It's what God wrote, and we should interpret Thessalonians 4:17 correctly.
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What "correctly" is is part of the crux of this debate.
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TigerShadow wrote:What "correctly" is is part of the crux of this debate.
What does crux mean?
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Crux means the main point. The main point is that you think you are interpreting the verses correctly, well so do I. This is as far as we can get on our own limited knowledge, should we not look to other sources to lend support to our respective sides? I look to the lack of support for your interpretation until very late in the history of Christianity and say that this is not as obvious as you make it out to be, if it was there would have been writings about it, not to say that proves the point but it adds support to your claim.
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:Crux means the main point. The main point is that you think you are interpreting the verses correctly, well so do I. This is as far as we can get on our own limited knowledge, should we not look to other sources to lend support to our respective sides? I look to the lack of support for your interpretation until very late in the history of Christianity and say that this is not as obvious as you make it out to be, if it was there would have been writings about it, not to say that proves the point but it adds support to your claim.
Ok. Is this your only "proof" against the rapture?
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Yes, lack of proof about the rapture occurring is my main reason for not believing it will happen.
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:Yes, lack of proof about the rapture occurring is my main reason for not believing it will happen.
What do you mean by "lack or proof?" Are you looking for sources outside of Gods Word?
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I'm looking at information to help me understand the culture at the time these passages were written. Through that study I can better understand God's word. We don't interpret the Bible in a vacuum after all. You didn't just pick up the Bible one day and interpret it by yourself with no guidance or outside influences, even reading it in English is an outside influence.
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:I'm looking at information to help me understand the culture at the time these passages were written. Through that study I can better understand God's word. We don't interpret the Bible in a vacuum after all. You didn't just pick up the Bible one day and interpret it by yourself with no guidance or outside influences, even reading it in English is an outside influence.
Ok. I see where you're coming from.
I know you will disagree, but I really don't think we need outside influences to tell us what the Bible says or doesn't say. Now, they might help, but I think we should come up with our viewpoints on our own. After all, the Bible was written to us.
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