Is man basically good, or basically evil?

[Blitz]

Again I would like to remind you God killed people like the prophet who went to Jeroboam and Ananias and Sapphira through Peter. He let the Assyrians and the Babylonians ravage Israel plunder. He is the God who put the capital punishment into place. We misunderstand God. He is good but he is also just. We define God's goodness in our perspective Pound Foolish. So God did curse the earth. He turned work from being completely fun to hard.
If Christ were not 100% God he also could not have gone with out sinning. He is an anomaly. Adam was the perfect man, but he was capable of choosing sin and Jesus was capable of choosing sin. Thus the temptation in the wilderness. But he was also 100% God. And this is almost a pointless debate. We can not explain salvation or man's nature. Man is too finite to figure it out. Just like we can't fully grasp how God who created the world for his own pleasure would actually send his own son to die for it. He doesn't really need us.

[Eleventh Doctor]

So we can't explain man's nature? I thought you said it was evil? That God gave us up and removed the good from us, changed our very nature. That sounds like you have it pretty figured out.

God sent His Son because of love. Pretty simple actually, just like the argument about our nature. We are made in the image of God, if God is good then our core is good. If our core is evil, then God is evil.

[Blitz]

I said we can't explain it completely. Do I know if I am completely correct? Do you know if you are completely correct? We argue as if we know the mind of God. We have no idea what his mind does or how he would explain what we argue about.
We are made in the image of God not as God himself. We don't think like he does.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I don't know that I'm completely correct and I don't know the mind of God.

I'm just stating a simple truth, if we are made in the image of God and God is good then our core is good, otherwise we are not made in the image of God. What does being made in the image of God mean to you?

[Blitz]

I believe it is being made in appearance and the right to chose between evil and good unlike animals.

[Eleventh Doctor]

What do you be made in appearance? Also do we still have the ability to choose between good and evil? I thought your side said we are incapable of choosing good?

[Blitz]

No I said that we are basically evil not that we don't have the ability to chose good. Man once lived by consciences which was man's good nature yet still he sinned immensely. First was the Age of Innocence which was Adam and Eve. Then came the Age of Conscience which man lived by conscience which is the law written inside of each person. That proves that man is not basically good and after that God stopped interfering directly in man because after that came the Age of Human Law. (There are seven dispensations) Man could not live by his 'good nature' if you will because he was inclined to pick his evil side.
To a degree each man has a good nature. His conscience which permits morals, man shuns his consciences.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Ahh, you're a dispensationalist. Can you remind me of the seven dispensations?

[Blitz]

Innocence
Conscience
Human Law
Promise
Law
Grace
Millennium Kingdom.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Thank you, I was raised a dispensationalist but it's been awhile. I would argue that dispensationalism is about how God interacts with us not a change in us hence it isn't about a change in us so we still maintain our basic human nature. It has just been corrupted by the Fall. But I would never say that God stopped "interfering" with us, could you maybe expand on that idea?

Also I don't accept a Millennium Kingdom.

[Blitz]

I meant that God stopped doing things like the flood, affecting our conscience so much etc. All the early men of faith(Seth, Abel) lived by their conscience.

[Pound Foolish]

While this is not theologically sound reasoning, and I'm sure Eleventh Doctor can excellently explain how (which is the best kind of proof), I just wanted to handle what reality says real quick. Reality says that our Father has not abandoned the earth He created and loves, knowing every sparrow that falleth. Reality says Eucharists bleed, thousands, even skeptics, are forced to acknowledge scientifically inexplicable healing performed by our Lord through His servants the Sts., and this has been, is, and will continue to be verified by scientists and religious alike.

[Blitz]

I never said he completely abandoned us which I keep emphasizing. His restraint on evil lowers as we make more bad decisions. If God wanted to he could do a large revival. But then our fall would be quicker. We has humans are drawn to evil.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Why doesn't God do a large revival?

[Blitz]

People grow so cold after it. The Great Awakenings are a good example. Man has a tendency to stray after the second generation into habit. At least that is what I believe. Also in Africa we have revivals, but you see no major affect because of the lack of good churches.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Could the failures of the Great Awakenings maybe instead be because the focus was on a one time event that emphasised an outward commitment without focusing on a long term change? Also because it focused on individuals and not building faith communities that would support each other long term.

How would you define good churches? I mean my own denomination is involved in Africa, especially Kenya. And what in your mind would be major effects?

[Blitz]

That is why I don't believe in major revivals. It is outward.
Good churches are churches that have a youth group, good leaders, teach the Word, and really grow.
In my mind, a major effect would be more than just a superficial conversion. A real change in how people live from day to day.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Why do they need a youth group?

So people in Africa aren't changing how they live from day to day?

[Blitz]

Africa is a country that is hard to change. It takes a full generation to get ideas of superstitions out.
Youth groups are important, because teens are in the most need of direction. Good youth groups build character.

[Eleventh Doctor]

wow, racist much?