Castles and Cauldrons

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TigerShadow
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Re: Castles and Cauldrons

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The problem wasn't individuals being careful; the problem was individuals being dictatorial and snobbishly judgmental about it. The problem wasn't so much with the people who said "I don't think that game is okay to play; the occult references bother me, so I cannot in good faith allow that game to be played in my house"; the problem lay with the people who screamed "These games are of the devil, and you're a horrible person for daring to suggest that they are anything other than Satanic filth! Anyone who plays these games is demon-possessed and not a true believer!". There's a difference between being cautious and having a massively disproportionate overreaction.
it's not about 'deserve'. it's about what you believe. and i believe in love
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Mandy
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Re: Castles and Cauldrons

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Yeah I agree. :)
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~Lady Mandy Knight of the
Order of Chrysostom in the
Court of the Debate Vampires~

MF: How much do you know about Helios?

Woody: Let's see. I know you survived her
drama, I know she's a danger to
society, I know she's a lie, I know
Belle is unfazed by her wrath, I
know she has ox horns, and I know
I should beware of her.

(And she is also my enemy. :evil: )
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Eleventh Doctor
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Re: Castles and Cauldrons

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Except there's nothing to be cautious or careful about, this is a table top game like Clue or The Game of Life. It has no satanic influence, it was created by a Christian, and has never been linked to satanic or demonic activity. It has no more occult references than Chronicles of Narnia or Lord of the Rings.
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TigerShadow
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Re: Castles and Cauldrons

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There are some people for whom that sort of content is a problem, though, just as there are people who can't watch violent movies, are leery of depictions of sex, or are bothered by foul language. As long as they can hold a respectful discussion with you and stay in their lane otherwise, there's nothing wrong with them continuing to stay away from media with magic in it if that bothers them. Personal convictions are different for everyone.
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Hcube7
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Re: Disagreeing With Odyssey

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Just so you know, everyone, Castles and Cauldrons is referring to a specific game called Dungeons and Dragons. People do actually play this game IN REAL LIFE. What Odyssey is trying to say is, summoning demons is a real thing, fantasy role-playing games in this sense are extremely dangerous, don't get sucked into a game that will ruin your life.
~Hanna :D
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TigerShadow
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Re: Disagreeing With Odyssey

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Hcube7 wrote:People do actually play this game IN REAL LIFE.
Why is this a problem? Most players of D&D don't do things the way Len Barclay did them. Once again, LARPing is considered pretty weird even by RPGer standards.
Hcube7 wrote:What Odyssey is trying to say is, summoning demons is a real thing, fantasy role-playing games in this sense are extremely dangerous, don't get sucked into a game that will ruin your life.
And that's what we have a problem with. RPGs are not inherently dangerous. Summoning demons is a real thing, but is it really a real thing correlated with RPGs? Is the episode actually addressing a problem common in RPGs, or is it making a boogeyman out of something that really and truly does not hurt anyone? Are you saying that all RPGs are evil and will by their very nature involve summoning demons? Because there are quite a few people who play fantasy RPGs, many of whom are Christians and at least one of whom is on this board, who would contest that theory.

(In the interest of full disclosure, the following maniacal rampage isn't addressed to you specifically, Hcube, but to a problem I see a lot in multiple different circles when it comes to stuff like this.)

To me, the biggest problem with C&C is really a problem that occurs any time a new thing is developed and brought forth to the public. Any time it has elements that even remotely contradict our worldviews—or, let's be honest here, our personal tastes—we immediately scramble to figure out reasons why they're not just things we dislike or have problems with, but why they're outright demonic (or evil, if you prefer). We don't do any research into this new thing, we don't figure out why it is the way it is, and we don't wait and see if the new thing will actually cause problems; we immediately jump to condemning it outright without knowing all of the facts and seeing what it's like for ourselves.

It's exactly the sort of problem that is discussed in a much better episode, "You Gotta Be Wise" (which I would definitely recommend, by the way), where people blindly follow a mob mentality either for or against a particular piece of culture without trying to actually learn about it and discuss it. When we use our discernment and actually do our research, we may indeed come to the same basic conclusion that we already had before, or we may find that it's really not as bad as it looks, or we may decide that while it's not for us, it's not so bad that somebody else can't enjoy it. But meat is meat, whether it's offered to idols or not. It's best to be patient, learn all the facts about something, get opinions from multiple people, and examine it from as objective a lens as you can before you arrive at a categorical conclusion.

And that's not just a Focus on the Family problem; that's a society problem, and it's a personal problem. Everyone gets knee-jerk reactions and gets wrapped up in their initial impressions of things without properly examining the situation. I know I've definitely done it. But it's something to correct, not something to promote or to treat as acceptable when someone we like or agree with does it.

Differing, fact-based opinions are welcome; wholesale condemnation without much evidence of clear, factual research and analysis is not, and our problem with "Castles & Cauldrons" is that it's an episode that is far more reactionary than it is edifying.
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Hcube7
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Re: Disagreeing With Odyssey

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TigerShadow wrote: RPGs are not inherently dangerous. Summoning demons is a real thing, but is it really a real thing correlated with RPGs?
I believe that it really is a real thing correlated with some RPGs. Honestly, think of God here, people. Does God want you to do some freaky ritual summoning something? Now, I understand that some if not most RPGs don't have this kind of thing, but some do, and they are the games I am talking about when I say "ruin your life". Playfully using your imagination is fine, but when it comes to rituals, just say no.

Deuteronomy 18:10-12
"There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you."
TigerShadow wrote:Is the episode actually addressing a problem common in RPGs, or is it making a boogeyman out of something that really and truly does not hurt anyone?
I believe that Odyssey was warning against dangers of certain games that really and truly DO hurt people.
TigerShadow wrote:It's best to be patient, learn all the facts about something, get opinions from multiple people, and examine it from as objective a lens as you can before you arrive at a categorical conclusion.

And that's not just a Focus on the Family problem; that's a society problem, and it's a personal problem. Everyone gets knee-jerk reactions and gets wrapped up in their initial impressions of things without properly examining the situation. I know I've definitely done it. But it's something to correct, not something to promote or to treat as acceptable when someone we like or agree with does it.

Differing, fact-based opinions are welcome; wholesale condemnation without much evidence of clear, factual research and analysis is not, and our problem with "Castles & Cauldrons" is that it's an episode that is far more reactionary than it is edifying.
I agree.

Thank you for taking time to reply to my message.
~Hanna :D
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TigerShadow
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Re: Disagreeing With Odyssey

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Hcube7 wrote:I believe that it really is a real thing correlated with some RPGs. Honestly, think of God here, people. Does God want you to do some freaky ritual summoning something? Now, I understand that some if not most RPGs don't have this kind of thing, but some do, and they are the games I am talking about when I say "ruin your life". Playfully using your imagination is fine, but when it comes to rituals, just say no.
Hcube7 wrote:I believe that Odyssey was warning against dangers of certain games that really and truly DO hurt people.
But where's the proof of that? Can you give me some statistics, news articles showing some trends, any specific examples? I hate to be "that guy", but the burden of proof here is on you. If you can show me some actual trends in these games, that they do lead many of their players into demonic rituals and lifestyles, and give me some names of specific games that have this as an intrinsic part of their gameplay, then by all means, I'll take it into further consideration.

(Note my language here—I'm not just asking for one example of a couple of people who did something stupid. I'm not interested in outliers. I'd like to see an actual statistical trend, where it's plainly evident that RPGs as a cultural element lead people into the occult, rather than just one or two people who got carried away.)

(Also, I'm going to move this to the Castles and Cauldrons thread in the Episodes subforum, because it's getting a little off-topic. To one degree or another, I question whether or not the creation of this thread was wise, as it was bound to spiral off into debates about really specific, tangentially-related things...but I enjoy it anyway.)
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Pound Foolish
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Re: Castles and Cauldrons

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Eleventh Doctor wrote:Except there's nothing to be cautious or careful about, this is a table top game like Clue or The Game of Life. It has no satanic influence, it was created by a Christian, and has never been linked to satanic or demonic activity. It has no more occult references than Chronicles of Narnia or Lord of the Rings.
I have been told there are actual incantations from occult spells and cults. Do you know whether that's true?

I would like to clarify I'm entirely with you and Tiger, this episode is a straw man and an embarrassment.
“I absolutely demand of you and everyone I know that they be widely read in every [censored] field there is: in every religion and every art form and don’t tell me you haven’t got time! There’s plenty of time.”~ Ray Bradbury
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