Pentecostal Q&A!

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Striped Leopard
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Well, the word Trinity is not used in the Bible. It's a concept we derive from the teaching of several passages of Scripture. Her denomination does not derive that teaching from Scripture. She just hasn't been taught correctly why the Trinity is found in Scripture and why to believe otherwise is very dangerous.
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MaryBeth_13
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well, i haven't read the WHOLE bible, but my dad tells me stuff like that cuz he's a pastor,
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Smile Awhile
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What verse in the bible does it say? I have 2 that contradict the trinity. John 1:1 KJV "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Acts 2:38 KJV "Then Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."


There. 2 scriptures vs. none specified! TAKE THAT TRINITY!!!
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Striped Leopard
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Umm... how in the world are those supposed to contradict the Trinity?

John 1:1 is merely saying that Jesus is God, and that He and the Father are both God, and that there was a time in the beginning when they were together in heaven, before He came to earth. Actually, this verse is a nice defense of the Trinity. These aren't just two "manifestations" of the same being. Otherwise, why would they be referred to separately? No, these are two separate persons. But they are both referred to as God. Are there two Gods? No, "The LORD our God, the LORD is one." Therefore, we must conclude that God is one in essence, but He is at least 2 in persons, based on that passage.

Acts 2:38... I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with that one. All it's saying is that baptism in the name of Christ is a confirmation that your sins are forgiven and that you have the Holy Spirit. What that has to do with the Trinity I have no idea.

Okay, you want Scripture references? I gave you several implied references on the previous page, but since you seem to want exact chapter and verse, I'll give you that:

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are personally distinct from one another.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are able to:

(A) Send or be sent by one another (John 3:17, 10:36, 14:23-26, 15:26, 16:7).

(B) Speak to each other (John 17:1-26, Romans 8:26-27, Hebrews 1:7-8) and about each other (Matthew 17:5, Mark 1:11, John 8:13-18).

(C) The Father and Son love and honor each other (John 3:35, 5:20, 14:31).

Genesis 1:26 and 3:22, Psalm 45:6-7, Isaiah 6:8 and 48:12-17 are verses from the OT that seem to imply the multi-personal nature of God.

There's much more that I could share with you. I got all of my defense texts from this article, which is a very thorough refutation of your Oneness Pentacostalism/Modalism.
Formerly Christian A. :)
Jeremiah 13:23
Ezekiel 36:26-27
Ephesians 2:4-10

God has done the impossible! He has, in effect, changed a leopard's spots into stripes! He turned me, one who was accustomed to do evil, into one who can walk in good works! He brought me to life from the dead and gave me His Spirit, in order to cause me to walk in His statutes! He has totally changed me, and it is all for His glory!
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Smile Awhile
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Well, it never distinctly says that God is three persons. Here are some Bible verse examples of the Oneness.

Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him (Deuteronomy 4:35).

Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else (Deuteronomy 4:39).

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior (Isaiah 43:10-11).

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God (Isaiah 44:6).

Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? Ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any (Isaiah 44:8).

Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself (Isaiah 44:24).

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else (Isaiah 45:5-6).

For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else (Isaiah 45:18).

Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? Who hath told it from that time? Have not I the LORD? And there is no God else beside me; a just God and a saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and there is none else (Isaiah 45:21-22).

To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like? (Isaiah 46:5).
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me (Isaiah 46:9).
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Belle
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The Trinity is 3 in one. God is not 3, he is 1. But he is 3 persons in one. Each person is fully God, but together they are only 1. The trinity is one of the most difficult things to understand, because we almost can't understand it.
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Smile Awhile
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Well, the oneness is easy to understand.

-- Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:58 pm --

Also, look at the last few words of the last verse I posted. There is none like Me
He didn't say "us". If you're thinking of Matthew 28:19, then read it more carefully. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" It says name. Not names. The name is Jesus Christ. The apostles baptized in the name of Jesus. Were they going against God's commandments? No. He said name. Not plural: names.
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I don't think we have 2 go 2 war,but I totally agree with Smile Awhile.
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Smile Awhile
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YAY! Someone with some sense! (No offense.)
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Belle
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Smile Awhile wrote:Also, look at the last few words of the last verse I posted. There is none like Me
He didn't say "us".
You're right, he didn't say "us". That is because God is fully and completely one. Like I said, it is difficult to understand, but God is one. Completely, and fully one. However, he is 3 persons, and each are fully and completely God. It is confusing though.
Smile Awhile wrote:If you're thinking of Matthew 28:19, then read it more carefully. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" It says name. Not names. The name is Jesus Christ. The apostles baptized in the name of Jesus. Were they going against God's commandments? No. He said name. Not plural: names.
Personally, I think this argument works better for me than you. Why did God say all those names if He was not all of those? If God is not 3 persons in 1, (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), then he would be saying that they should baptize in His name, and in the name of 2 others? Which is why He said "name", and didn't make it plural. He is 1 person, yet 3-in-1. If the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are not all the same person, then why would we be commanded to batize in their name?

Have you heard the episode: Three in One (in the Truth Chronicles)? This episode can probably explain it better than I am.
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Smile Awhile
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I have heard it, but they don't give very much proof for their view.
In reply to the rest, look where the apostles baptized. every time, they said, "...in the name of Jesus..." You say that the Bible is true. Does that mean that that part of the Bible is not true? and if that part's not true, is it possible that other parts are, like creation? Take this for example. If someone lied about one thing, would you have trouble believing everything else they say? Keep in mind... One thing. Just one mistake can make you wonder about many things.
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Smile Awhile wrote:I have heard it, but they don't give very much proof for their view.
In reply to the rest, look where the apostles baptized. every time, they said, "...in the name of Jesus..."
Yes, they said in the name of Jesus because God is the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. Why would they baptize in the name of the Holy Spirit if (according to your argument) God is not all 3?
Smile Awhile wrote:You say that the Bible is true. Does that mean that that part of the Bible is not true? and if that part's not true, is it possible that other parts are, like creation? Take this for example. If someone lied about one thing, would you have trouble believing everything else they say? Keep in mind... One thing. Just one mistake can make you wonder about many things.
Yes, the Bible is true. ALL of it is true. Not a single part of it is not true. Did I ever even hint that part of it was not true?

You still aren't giving any evidence to support your belief.

Now I have a question for you:

What is it specificly about the Trinity that you don't believe? Why?
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Smile Awhile wrote:Well, the oneness is easy to understand.

-- Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:58 pm --

Also, look at the last few words of the last verse I posted. There is none like Me
He didn't say "us". If you're thinking of Matthew 28:19, then read it more carefully. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" It says name. Not names. The name is Jesus Christ. The apostles baptized in the name of Jesus. Were they going against God's commandments? No. He said name. Not plural: names.

Well, I don't want to sound all teacher-like here but the reason its saying "NAME" in this verse is because using a plural form would be grammatically incorrect. When using conjunctions, certain rules apply. If you add the conjunction -AND before every word, it signifies that they are different entities, i.e. "the Father, AND of the Son, AND of the Holy Ghost," and thus the word NAME would apply to THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY GHOST singularly. If we would have used the word NAMES it would have also applied to the words singularly and therefore have made it sound as if the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost each had multiple NAMES. This is why the singular form of the word NAME is used in the text.

wow.... ok hopefully I explained that right :D
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Smile Awhile
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In reply to your comment, God's Girl, the following verse is the main one that sums it up for me, and it's because the Bible says it. If all of it is true, then how does this not contradict the trinity?

John 10:30. I and my Father are one.
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Renae wrote:
Smile Awhile wrote:Well, the oneness is easy to understand.

-- Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:58 pm --

Also, look at the last few words of the last verse I posted. There is none like Me
He didn't say "us". If you're thinking of Matthew 28:19, then read it more carefully. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" It says name. Not names. The name is Jesus Christ. The apostles baptized in the name of Jesus. Were they going against God's commandments? No. He said name. Not plural: names.

Well, I don't want to sound all teacher-like here but the reason its saying "NAME" in this verse is because using a plural form would be grammatically incorrect. When using conjunctions, certain rules apply. If you add the conjunction -AND before every word, it signifies that they are different entities, i.e. "the Father, AND of the Son, AND of the Holy Ghost," and thus the word NAME would apply to THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY GHOST singularly. If we would have used the word NAMES it would have also applied to the words singularly and therefore have made it sound as if the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost each had multiple NAMES. This is why the singular form of the word NAME is used in the text.

wow.... ok hopefully I explained that right :D

but how can there be 3 holy Gods?? If God is the only one. also there r things of God we dont always understand. This could be one. Even if we dont understand how can we chnage it so we can>
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Smile Awhile wrote:In reply to your comment, God's Girl, the following verse is the main one that sums it up for me, and it's because the Bible says it. If all of it is true, then how does this not contradict the trinity?

John 10:30. I and my Father are one.
Again, this verse does not contradict the trinity either. Who is talking here? I believe that it is Jesus talking here, right? So if Jesus and His Father are 1, then how on earth does this contradict the trinity. I shall repeat what I said earlier: The Trinity is The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each part is fully and completely God, BUT, they are 1.

In the Adventures in Odyssey Truth Chronicles Episode, they explain the trinity with an egg, an egg has 3 parts (shell, yolk, white), but together it is one. But because the egg is 3 parts, it doesn't mean that you say that one egg is more because of its 3 parts, because the 3 parts make 1 thing, the egg, in the same way, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit make 1.

You seem to be misinterpreting these verses, so I have another question: What is it about the Trinity that you don't believe? Can you please explain, in your own words, why the Trinity is false, because the verse up there does nothing to prove it wrong.
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God's Girl, I must agree with Smile Awhile. Even though I do not have scriptural reference with me at this moment, I can indeed give it at a later date. I do have 1 question. If the trinity is 3 but one, why do you need the 3? Why is God limited to 3? God can be billions of things. If you look through the New Testament you will find that the Apostle Peter was the 1st to know who Jesus was. Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. Whatever he bound on Earth would be bound in Heaven. Whatever he loosed on Earth would be loosed in Heaven. You will find in Acts that the promise of the comforter is fullfilled. When the men in the city asked men & brethern what must we do? Peter stood up with the 11 & preached the 1st message of salvation in Acts chaper 2. Then again in Acts Chapter 10 the Lord tells Peter to go with some men seeking him. Peter is sent to Cornelius a centurion that honored God. Once there Peter preached that same saving message preached in Acts chapter 2. After the death Of Jesus on the cross you will never find any other method of baptism used in the New Testament other than the lovely name of Jesus. God's Girl, My problem with the trinity is that the word is never used in the entire Bible. My dad & pastor both teach to always check the word behind whomever is preaching or teaching. Never allow anyone to teach anything not found in the word. My dad also taught me to pray for understanding when I read that I may glean what God wants me to get from it. Even though I do not have scriptural references with me, I can ask my dad to help me with them. He has been in the faith for 30 years now. He has read the Bible many times over & I have listened to him pray for wisdom many times. May God Bless You All!
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Smile Awhile
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Here's more.

John 14:7-9
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Jesus just said that he who hath seen Him has seen the Father. does that mean that when you see Jesus, God the Father would come down from Heaven just so you could see Him? It just doesn't make sense.
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brittany k wrote:I do have 1 question. If the trinity is 3 but one, why do you need the 3? Why is God limited to 3? God can be billions of things.
This is like asking, "Why did God make the sky blue?" or "What is Heaven going to be like?" I don't and can't know for sure why God does anything. Us humans don't have the capacity to know everything about God.
brittany k wrote: My problem with the trinity is that the word is never used in the entire Bible.
brittany k wrote: Never allow anyone to teach anything not found in the word.
Again, nothing in the Bible contradicts the Trinity. And while the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible, this doesn't say that it isn't true. There's more on this website here: http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
Smile Awhile wrote:Here's more.

John 14:7-9
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Jesus just said that he who hath seen Him has seen the Father. does that mean that when you see Jesus, God the Father would come down from Heaven just so you could see Him? It just doesn't make sense.
So, please explain how you can believe in both God the Father, and God the Son (Jesus) without believing in the trinity? Without God the Father, God the Son, and God the holy Spirit all being one, then it is multiple Gods. How do you explain them both? These verses are talking about God the Father and Jesus being the same God. To answer your question, no, it doesn't mean that God comes down because God and Jesus are both fully and completely 1 God.

Again, your point of view seems to be supporting the trinity rather than contradicting. So, I will ask again, what exactly about the trinity is contradicted in the Bible, and what is wrong or false about it?
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Smile Awhile
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They are three different names for the same person. One example is this: your dad is called Dad to you. For others, it could be Uncle, Cousin, or even Honey. Those are all different names for the same person. That's how it is with God: different names for the same person.
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