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Can Christians be rich?

Debate. Discuss.

(ask MF for the exact issue to debate )

Here are a few verses for you to read, OxR. How do you think that the rich can go to Heaven after reading this?


Mark 10:25 Quote from Jesus

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

James 5:1-5

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. 2 Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. 4 Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. 5 You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.

Matthew 6:19-21 Quote from Jesus

Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Matthew 19:21 Quote from Jesus

Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

People seem to conveniently ignore the verse right after the first one you cited, MF.

26 And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, “Who then can be saved?”

27 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”

Just saying. *whistles*

So MF do you possess anything?

Yeah that's also a good point. By what standard do we judge riches? From the standpoint of Jesus's time we're all rich here in the US. We work cushy hours for the most part, have smartphones, and make a lot of money compared to the rest of the world and compared to ancient times.

SirWhit wrote:People seem to conveniently ignore the verse right after the first one you cited, MF.

26 And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, “Who then can be saved?”

27 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”

Just saying. *whistles*

I'm never said it wasn't impossible. I gave the verses that show how it's possible too.

Eleventh Doctor wrote:So MF do you possess anything?

Of course. This is opposite extreme some could rush to after reading those verses, but I don't think it's the right approach.

SirWhit wrote:Yeah that's also a good point. By what standard do we judge riches? From the standpoint of Jesus's time we're all rich here in the US. We work cushy hours for the most part, have smartphones, and make a lot of money compared to the rest of the world and compared to ancient times.

I totally agree with you. Compared to the rest of the world*, America is extremely wealthy. Which is why us Christians should really pay attention here to what Jesus said on wealth.

*Western Europe and Canada are wealthy as well.

So what is an acceptable level of possessions to possess?

Eleventh Doctor wrote:So what is an acceptable level of possessions to possess?

Your focus is on the wrong place. We don't try to figure out how much wealth we can have and still be saved. Our focus should be on how much we can give to God. When we are living to give Jesus our wealth and to work as hard as we can so we have more to give, our wealth becomes a blessing instead of a curse.

Okay, so what does that look like in practice to you?

Umm...Don't you think we should define Rich before continuing? I mean there's always going to be someone richer than you no matter where you go. Also, if you're rich and dishing out your money according to God's plans why would you not go to heaven? If you're a good steward(*refrains from quoting Whit*) of what God has given you then I don't see any reasons to not be "rich".

Let's not swing in the opposite direction. There are forces outside people's control that could mean they're not rich even if they are good stewards.

Wait...Could you clarify that? Are you saying that there's "not rich" people, who are good stewards?

No, I'm saying one could be a good steward but because of circumstances beyond their control; health issues, economics, or accidents could be poor.

I am saying if we are actively giving of our money it's possible for us to rich to go to Heaven. Our goal isn't to become "poor." (I actually know quite a few people who went this route and the picture isn't pretty.) Rather, we use our riches for a reason which includes helping the poor and in doing that actually putting our money in Heaven...like a bank that will never rust or decay.

Eleventh Doctor wrote:Okay, so what does that look like in practice to you?

Did I ever give you the short story of Frank the Wise Investor?

You did, I didn't find that story to be helpful.

Eleventh Doctor wrote:You did, I didn't find that story to be helpful.

I'm not surprised. Well that kind of focus and vision that Frank had is what we should have for Gods Kingdom in this area of money.

Ok this is what I think on the topic:

1. It is not wrong to have any amount of money whether it be rich in the well I'm struggling to buy food, but I do have a university degree, the I have a jet plane way or anything in between.
2. It is wrong to get rich by using people selfishly and trotting upon the heads of the poor on your way to the top.
3. It is wrong to hoard your riches, give nothing to the poor, waste them on yourself, do nothing with them to make the world a better place and/or use your money on un ethical things.
4. We need to remember that while I believe the above is a good brief explanation of what I think a life changed by God will and will not look like in terms of money, living properly is not what gets us to heaven. It is faith in Christ that saves us. Maybe we have sinful (which could also be read as unhealthy) relationship with money and this is an area in our life that God is still working on. Let's not guilt trip each other about that but encourage each other. I believe the discipline of simplicity brings forth the freedom from fear concerning your possessions, but it is a tough discipline to practice.

What would you say is an unethical way to spend your money?

Spoon wrote:What would you say is an unethical way to spend your money?

Who are you asking?

Probably me because I said I think it is wrong to spend money on unethical things. I meant things that are bad for the environment or that support slavery or something like that.