The Church Walking With the World

[Miss Friendship]

The Church and the World walked far apart
On the changing shores of time,
The World was singing a giddy song,
And the Church a hymn sublime.
 
“Come, give me your hand,” said the merry World,
“And walk with me this way!”
But the faithful Church hid her gentle hands
And solemnly answered “Nay!
 
I will not give you my hand at all,
And I will not walk with you;
Your way is the way that leads to death;
Your words are all untrue.”
 
“Nay, walk with me but a little space,” 
Said the World with a kindly air;
“The road I walk is a pleasant road,
And the sun shines always there.
 
Your path is thorny and rough and rude,
But mine is broad and plain;
My way is paved with flowers and dews,
And yours with tears and pain.
 
The sky to me is always blue,
No want, no toil I know;
The sky above you is always dark,
Your lot is a lot of woe.
There’s room enough for you and me
To travel side by side.”
 
Half  shyly the Church approached the World
And gave him her hand of snow;
And the old World grasped it and walked along,
Saying, in accents low:
 
“Your dress is too simple to please my taste;
I will give you pearls to wear,
Rich velvets and silks for your graceful form,
And diamonds to deck your hair.”
 
The Church looked down at her plain white robes,
And then at the dazzling World,
And blushed as she saw his handsome lip
With a smile contemptuous curled.
 
“I will change my dress for a costlier one,”
Said the Church, with a smile of grace;
Then her pure white garments drifted away,
And the World gave, in their place,
Beautiful satins and shining silks,
Roses and gems and costly pearls;
While over her forehead her bright hair fell
Crisped in a thousand curls.
 
“Your house is too plain,” said the proud old World,
“I’ll build you one like mine;
With walls of marble and towers of gold,
And furniture ever so fine.”
 
So he built her a costly and beautiful house;
Most splendid it was to behold;
Her sons and her beautiful daughters dwelt there
Gleaming in purple and gold.
 
Rich fairs and shows in the halls were held,
And the World and his children were there.
Laughter and music and feasts were heard
In the place that was meant for prayer.
 
There-were cushioned seats for the rich and the gay,
To sit in their pomp and pride;
But the poor who were clad in shabby array,
Sat meekly down outside.
 
“You give too much to the poor,” said the World.
 “Far more than you ought to do;
If they are in need of shelter and food,
Why need it trouble you?
 
Go, take your money and buy rich robes,
Buy horses and carriages fine;
Buy pearls and jewels and dainty food,
Buy the rarest and costliest wine.
 
My children, they dote on all these things,
And if you their love would win
You must do as they do, and walk in the ways
That they are walking in.”
 
So the poor were turned from her door in scorn,
And she heard not the orphan’s cry;
But she drew her beautiful robes aside,
As the widows went weeping by.
 
Then the sons of the World and the Sons of the Church
Walked closely hand and heart,
And only the Master, who knoweth all,
Could tell the two apart.
 
Then the Church sat down at her ease, and said,
“I am rich and my goods increase;
I have need of nothing, or aught to do,
But to laugh, and dance, and feast.”
 
The sly World heard, and he laughed in his sleeve,
And mockingly said, aside:
“The Church is fallen, the beautiful Church;
And her shame is her boast and her pride.”
 
The angel drew near to the mercy seat,
And whispered in sighs her name;
Then the loud anthems of rapture were hushed,
And heads were covered with shame.
 
And a voice was heard at last by the Church
From Him who sat on the throne:
 
“I know thy works, and how thou hast said,
‘I am rich, and hast not known
That thou art naked, poor and blind,
And wretched before my face;’
Therefore from my presence cast I thee out,
And blot thy name from its place.”

"...you shall be holy to Me, for I the Lord am holy, and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be Mine." Leviticus 20:26

"Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: 'I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people.'
      Therefore 'Come out from among them and be separate,' says the Lord. 'Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you. I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters,' says the Lord Almighty.” 2 Corinthians 6:14-18

by Matilda C. Edwards
Best Loved Poems (Garden City, NY: Garden City Publishing, 1936), pages 345-347.


 

[Eleventh Doctor]

So much for on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

[Miss Friendship]

So the Church has no free will? Its going to be a perfect spotless bride, yes. But those are only the ones that stay faithful.

So why are there verses that talk about not conforming to this world if the Church will never stumble?

[Eleventh Doctor]

I think we're working off a different definition of the Church. How would you define the Church?

[Miss Friendship]

The Chruch of Jesus Christ is made up of all those who have completely surrendered their lives to Jesus, and have been grafted into the vine, as it talks about in John 15.

Now there are many who claim Christ's name, but like the poem points out, have walked away with the world.

[aragtaghooligan]

We all sin though and those sins are forgiven. When we trust in Jesus the sins of our past are forgiven, but the sins of our future are also forgiven. While we are in this world, and trusting in Jesus we are growing more and more and more like Him but we aren't perfect. We make mistakes and Jesus' blood covers these. So just because we walk with the world sometimes in how we live doesn't mean we will be thrown from heaven. That said we should live as God wants us to and not just because we want to be Holy but also because even if we can't always see how, it is the better way.

My one question is, in not walking as the world how do you love the word? Jesus, granted, did not have a home and did not wear fancy clothes, but he did do a lot of things I think you might perhaps be scared to do like drinking with sinners and talking to adulterers. He even stopped a stoning, I think that would be a bit like if I said let's not kill someone on death row lets tell them about Jesus and give them a chance to rehabilitate back into society as a Christian. Radical stuff.

[Miss Friendship]

He who loves the world is an enemy of God, the Bible says. Where does it say we supposed to love the world?

The people, yes, but not the world. I have talked to many adulteres, drunks and even one guy that was possesed with demons. Was I scared? No. I witness to those people cause I love them and have an terrible weight upon me when I think of their eternal destiny without Christ. Do I try to prove my love by joining in with their sinful activities and purswade them that I am "one of them." No. Because I am not. If they see me approving of what they do by taking part and acting like their culture, then I have nothing new to offer them.

"If you act like the world, you have nothing to offer them." Quote by someone I don't know.

Its a great lie in Christianity today that in order to win people to Christ all you got to do is "just be their friend and never mention hell or sin because that is unloving." When really the most loving thing you can do is tell them about the burning building they are in, how time is short, and eternity is forever. And by living a life that is apparent to everyone watching that its different.

[Doll]

Its a great lie in Christianity today that in order to win people to Christ all you got to do is "just be their friend and never mention hell or sin because that is unloving." When really the most loving thing you can do is tell them about the burning building they are in, how time is short, and eternity is forever. And by living a life that is apparent to everyone watching that its different.

I completely disagree. If you went up to most people on the street, and told them that they were living in terrible sin and were going to burn in hell, they'd think you crazy and completely discount what you were saying.

Instead, I believe the most effective form of evangelism is to form a relationship first. Show them by your actions that you have something different. No, obviously, don't join in the sin, but don't immediately go off about how they're going to burn in hell.

Yes, you should talk to them, tell them the truth, but doing it immediately isn't going to help things..

[Miss Friendship]

OK, I failed to articulate exactly what I am saying.

You definetly do not walk up to someone and say they are going to hell. I have never done that, and never intend too. You are their friend, you are an interested, yet concerned stranger friend. Because you know the odds that you will ever meet them again, you do however, bring up God in the conversation. How do you know if you have time or not to build a relationship. When I go witnessing, I never talk to those same people again. And they ARE in a burning building without Christ.

And I just can't stand it when someone talks about those people as "I need to make them comfortable with me as a friend first before I share the Good news and bad news" Imagine a fireman doing that. "Its a little to rude to burst into their room and wake them from their sleep screaming at them to evacuate," thinks the fireman. "So instead I will take a glass of ice water and have a heart to heart talk before hand and then maybe hint at the possible fire."

[Doll]

And I just can't stand it when someone talks about those people as "I need to make them comfortable with me as a friend first before I share the Good news and bad news" Imagine a fireman doing that. "Its a little to rude to burst into their room and wake them from their sleep screaming at them to evacuate," thinks the fireman. "So instead I will take a glass of ice water and have a heart to heart talk before hand and then maybe hint at the possible fire."

No, I don't think you need to make them completely comfortable.

But, that analogy doesn't quite work. Most people, if a fireman told them that there was a fire in the room, they would immediately recognize that, and and agree to leave. If not, the fireman can force them to leave.

However, talking as far as an unbeliever, you can't force them to be a believer. They need to come of their own free will. You can tell them that there is a fire around them all you want, but they have to believe and accept it on their own.

Also, I still don't agree that telling them they're going to burn in hell is the best way to evangelize. Is the point of having a relationship with Christ to save you from burning in hell, or to follow Him? Telling people that right off will only make them want to have a relationship with Him to save themselves not to follow Him..

[aragtaghooligan]

Miss Friendship, while I admire your emphasis on the urgency of the situation I still disagree with your approach. If you are talking to as many people as often as you can but it isn't helping it may be better to meet with fewer people over a longer time. I think it is interesting that one of the reasons you bring up is that you might not see them again. Ok, why not? I think that is exactly what TigerShadow might be getting at that you should be seeing the people again because you have a long term friendship.

[Doll]

I think that is exactly what TigerShadow might be getting at that you should be seeing the people again because you have a long term friendship.

I am confused, where did TigerShadow post? Was it in a different topic? (I am interested in reading TigerShadow's view, she always words things in a way that makes sense.)

[aragtaghooligan]

Oh I think I meant you oops I'm all befuddled today, my bad.

[Doll]

Oh I think I meant you oops I'm all befuddled today, my bad.

Ohhh, okay. In that case, yes, I agree with what you said about me.

[Blitz]

My one question is, in not walking as the world how do you love the word? Jesus, granted, did not have a home and did not wear fancy clothes, but he did do a lot of things I think you might perhaps be scared to do like drinking with sinners and talking to adulterers. He even stopped a stoning, I think that would be a bit like if I said let's not kill someone on death row lets tell them about Jesus and give them a chance to rehabilitate back into society as a Christian. Radical stuff.

*Growls* A drunk man once told a preacher who had something like this. Did the Bible ever say Jesus sat down and started drinking? Nope. This is a true story. On the other hand, be very careful on how close you get to sinners. They watch what you do. Many people have lost the chance to witness to one person because of one instance.

[TigerShadow]

I think that is exactly what TigerShadow might be getting at that you should be seeing the people again because you have a long term friendship.

I am confused, where did TigerShadow post? Was it in a different topic? (I am interested in reading TigerShadow's view, she always words things in a way that makes sense.)

-blushes furiously and ducks head-

Actually, I think my views on this topic tend more toward Belle's, but I'd also like to point out that different people are on different journeys in life, so to speak.

Some people are at a point where they are so lost and confused about where to go something a bit more generic (this word often has negative connotations, but here I use it in a purely denotative sense) like a tract or a word from street evangelists would be the trigger for them to go to a church or otherwise try to seek more information about a relationship with Jesus.

Others, however, are firmly opposed to Christianity, or even religion in general, and they would see giving them a tract or trying to reach them on the streets as making them into a "project" and reject it out of hand because they believe that they are being manipulated, and they instead need people in their lives with whom they form strong bonds to show them the love of God. That doesn't exclude outright sharing the Gospel, obviously, and in that kind of situation a Christian should take the opportunity when it comes, but it requires the formation of a close relationship that street evangelism doesn't tend to involve.

Also, I still don't agree that telling them they're going to burn in hell is the best way to evangelize. Is the point of having a relationship with Christ to save you from burning in hell, or to follow Him? Telling people that right off will only make them want to have a relationship with Him to save themselves not to follow Him..

I definitely agree with this. It's worth pointing out that there are people who initially come to the Christian faith are doing so out of fear and then form a real relationship with Christ, but hell really shouldn't be our main talking point - God and His love for us should frame every gospel conversation we have.

[Tarol]

*Growls* A drunk man once told a preacher who had something like this. Did the Bible ever say Jesus sat down and started drinking? Nope. This is a true story.

Please tell me that was sarcasm or something...because if it isn't, I have no idea what you are trying to say. I'm pretty sure one could Biblically assume that Jesus drank some sort of alcohol....

And Miss Friendship...could you please define the "world," for me? Do you mean the whole world, or the people, or the culture, or the entertainment, or the government, or what? And who decides what or who the "world" is?

[Miss Friendship]

When the Bible says "love not the world" I believe it's talking about everything outside of the Kingdom of God.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Okay so what is your definition of the Kingdom of God?

[aragtaghooligan]

“The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up. Then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field." - Jesus