Wealth and the Kingdom of the God

[Miss Friendship]

Go read the sermon on the mount. Jesus said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. The Bible has more verses that mention money and wealth than any other subject except maybe the Kingdom of God. That shows it is an important subject. Many today ignore what Jesus wrote about having possessions and wealth.

[Eleventh Doctor]

So what's the acceptable amount of wealth and possessions one can have?

[SirWhit]

But what about the wealthy people? Someone has to reach them you know. And Jesus said it was HARD. Not IMPOSSIBLE.

[Miss Friendship]

Yes Jesus has a solution for wealthy people. He said "Sell what you have and give and you shall have treasure in heaven." Its really good news if you look at it right. We have the chance of a lifetime to trade this worlds wealth that won't last forever, with something we can have forever throughout eternity. And that's through giving to the poor and needy.....

@ Eleventh Compare yourself to the rest of the world, and see if you are rich or not...Jesus doesn't give us exact proportions of wealth, but a good step would be to consider how rich His disciples were, and the early Christians.

Eleventh, if this continues much farther, maybe you could move this out of this thread and into another?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Much of the rest of the world lacks internet, why do you have internet?

I assume you have running water, indoor plumbing, a refrigerator, and a modern house. You probably also have things like a washing machine and dryer, more than one or two sets of clothes, and probably aren't concerned with where your next meal is coming from. All those things make you rich compared to the rest of the world.

[SirWhit]

You probably don't live in a war-torn country, where you have to work to even get a little bit of food on the table. So I guess you should move there if we shouldn't be rich.

[Miss Friendship]

Yes we are rich. I never said we aren't. But what is my family doing with as much money as we can spare? (Not to brag or anything) We try our best to use as much as possible for the kingdom of God. Therefore we don't invest in the stock market, or go buy a ten bedroom house, and buy the latest cars, or put away money for retirement. Please note that i understand what i am referring too....my Dad had invested in the stock market and wanted to live Monopoly in real life.....until he started reading what Jesus had said...he was shocked.

Although, the native boy in Africa has more information at his fingertips if he has a cell phone then President Lincoln did in the White House.

-- Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:56 pm --

http://www.watchmangospelsigns.com/reso ... indows.pdf

@Mr. Whits End
Maybe if you read this it will explain where I am coming from. Don't worry, its really interesting and really short.

[Eleventh Doctor]

You do realize that 99% of the worlds population doesn't invest in the stock market, buy mansions, or buy the latest cars right? That is an indication of extreme wealth. Many people in the world are concerned about where there next meal is coming from not about what car to buy. As for the cell phone, I don't see what your point is, many people even if they have that information aren't in a place to use that information.

[Miss Friendship]

True. true. My point was many are never insanely rich like that, but do they think about it? Do they wish they were that wealthy? Do they want the wealth of this world over the lower often neglected path of giving that Jesus points his followers too?

OK forget what I said about the African. I just thought the internet reference was kind of silly cause internet is free in many places and is all over the world....

[SirWhit]

I see your point MF. I think it makes sense. We shouldn't be hoarders and misers. We should give freely to God's work.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Fair enough, I agree we shouldn't focus on earthly possessions.

[Miss Friendship]

That's more agreement than I have heard all day.

Glad you understand.

[Spoon]

I'm failing to see how setting aside money for retirement/investing is a bad thing. Isn't there a parable about this?

[Mandy]

Wow Miss Friendship! Good work. You got this debate mostly finished in one day! ha ha. I've never seen any other debates where it ends with everyone coming to a sort of agreement.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Spoon clearly didn't agree with it, I would ask how saving for retirement is a bad idea. I mean what do you do when you get older?

[Mandy]

Well I will have to say that I was just trying to think of something to post cuz I wanted to get up to 150 posts. Therefore it was really dumb. But I am now up to 150 posts with this one.

[Spoon]

I'd even go so far as to say that it's not being a good steward of your money when you *don't* set aside savings for retirement or otherwise.

Two seconds of googling have come up with a slew of verses about this matter. Matthew 25 has an extensive parable on the subject. An excerpt:
-- 26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ --

2 Corinthians 9:6 But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.

Ecclesiastes 11:2 Invest in seven ventures, yes, in eight; you do not know what disaster may come upon the land.

Bible verses aside, common sense would lead you toward investment. Setting aside even $20/mo will gather considerable interest over time. If you spend even an hour researching how to invest it, and start young, you'll be pretty well off. It's incredibly foolish to think that letting your money work for you is greedy. If you didn't want to keep it for yourself, just give it away after however many years you decide is acceptable.

[Miss Friendship]

He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich
he hath sent empty away (Lk. 1:53).

But woe unto you that are rich! For ye have received your
consolation (Lk. 6:24).

Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries
that shall come upon you.

They that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare . . .
but thou, O man of God, flee these things (1 Tim. 6:9, 11).

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods,
and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art
wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked
(Rev. 3:17).

What about these verses?

There probably is no passage used more frequently to
justify the accumulation of earthly wealth than the Parable
of the Talents.
In this parable, found in Matthew 25 and Luke 19, Jesus
tells of a master who was going to be taking an extended trip
into a foreign country. Before he left, he divided up his money
among his servants and told them to invest it wisely until he
returned. At his return some time later, these servants were
rewarded or punished on the basis of how well they had done
in the world of investing.
The logic used is simple. Because a key part of Jesus’
parable is about earthly investing, and because the rewards go to
those who have done well at earthly investing, Jesus must
therefore approve of earthly investing.
This logic has several problems. First, Jesus frequently uses
earthly activities in his parables to teach a spiritual lesson. In
Luke 14:31, for instance, He uses the example of going to war to
teach a lesson about commitment. Does that mean he approves
of us going to war? Or what about building a tower, sowing
seed, or putting on a banquet? Does the fact that Jesus uses
these activities in His parables prove that He is advocating their
practice? Hardly. It is far more reasonable to believe that the
earthly activity given in the parable is a type of some
corresponding spiritual activity.
Second, does it seem reasonable that Jesus would forbid
earthly investing in Matthew 6:19, give warning after warning
about earthly riches throughout His teaching, and then turn
around and promote earthly investing in one of His parables? --quote from "Through the Eye of a Needle"

Common sense does lead you toward investing. I'm not saying to "not invest" but to rather invest in Jesus's bank, instead of the corruptible bank of the world. That's risky, you might say. I could give everything away, have treasure in heaven, and then suppose I had to have a major surgery? Here's your answer. Philippians 4:19 "But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus." God can supply all your needs--so it comes down to if you trust Him to take care of you after you've taken Him by His word. Did Jesus really mean every word He said?

[TigerShadow]

Okay, so does Jesus just give you money whenever you need it? The First Bank of Christ is always ready to make a transaction when you've got a good moral credit rating? What you're saying sounds eerily similar to the gospel often preached in third world countries, that if you just believe hard enough, God will fill all your earthly needs right when you need them, and it really doesn't sit right with me.

You, like many Christians in America, seem to be under the impression that God is like some kind of vending machine, but instead of just inserting prayer, you want to insert "doing the right thing with the right heart", as though you having a giving attitude automatically means that whenever you have an earthly need, God will fill it. You're treating God as though His blessings are under the control of how much trust you put in Him, as though a human being can somehow direct His will, and yet I seem to recall that the rain falls and the sun shines on the just and on the unjust. I'm pretty sure that the Coptic Christians put their trust in Jesus and eschew idolatry, but that didn't lead God to send in a massive American military squadron to take down the ISIS killers as they beheaded those twenty-two men.

[Spoon]

How are you defining rich? Do you have some sort of limit in mind? Because again, you could be wise with your money and give it away if you so choose. You could probably even start a few churches.

And sure, God can supply all of your needs. Doesn't mean that the surgery will be taken care of. You might die. I see that logic used a lot, 'I don't have to worry about this because God will take care of me'. Why not stop thinking of it so selfishly and use your money to take care of other people?

And it would seem that you are saying to not invest. I'm not talking about spiritual investment here. Just the monetary kind. What exactly is your view?