Wealth and the Kingdom of the God

[Blitz]

I don't even technically have clean water.... Anyway... MF, does God even really need us to fight Satan? A nope. With one word he do away with Satan's very existence.
MF, you say that our giving should have to do with how much we have left. That is completely against what the Bible teaches. Giving is a form of worship. Therefore it is never about the quantity but the heart. If I give all my goods to feed the poor and have not charity it profits me NOTHING. Therefore it is not about the quantity.
You can never give enough. Never. You are far from giving up a lot. Have you left family behind, friends, comfort? Giving is more than just money, way more.
Your whole argument falls to "With God all things are possible." That is where God's ultimate grace comes in. No one on this earth can give enough. God doesn't even need it; He wants us to give. Amount means nothing.

As in this post. No need to get edgy.

[Spoon]

There are millions and millions of professing Christians....and I shouldn't judge them. I was convicted of that today in a way I wasn't yesterday. But I have a question for you. What do you call person who claims Christ's name yet by his life, its obvious he doesn't serve God anymore than the atheist down the street? When I talk about the rich, and judge, like I did. Its not their riches I am condeming but rather their reluctance to give, their reluctance to witness to the lost, the odd looks they get when you get passionate about Jesus. Its a whole lot of things that make me doubt....can you understand that?

This feels a lot like 'I shouldn't judge them... but how can I go about judging them in a way that sounds better?'

If you think you shouldn't judge them, then don't. Simple as that. No need to 'what do I call people who I think might not be Christians?' Not your place. Let it go. You're not God.

[Miss Friendship]

But if I see a brother in Christ stumble down the wrong path...like money and possessions...and get caught in it, I want to warn him! And take the risk of him calling me judging if there's a chance he will listen....

[Spoon]

That's your prerogative, but I'm fairly certain it's not useful unless you're in a relationship with that person where it isn't abrasive and holier-than-thou. In which case that person would probably already know your viewpoint. Lead by example, don't just go calling people sinners. It's also not a judgment you can make at first glance, which seems to be what you believe. You don't know people's intentions or lives because they have 'money and possessions'. ...Also there's nothing inherently sinful about having money or possessions. So I'm not sure what you're really going off of here.

[Miss Friendship]

I'm going off of the Bible. What did you think I was going off of. Luke 18:25 is one verse in many. "For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

What do you say about that?

And I haven't judged any but who I know. So its not a first glance thing. People who my Dad grew up with... I'm not sure what kind of "known-ing" you are talking about, if that isn't close enough...

[Spoon]

I say.. it's not your place to judge? Same thing I've been saying. The Bible's pretty clear on that point. But we seem to have a pretty fundamentally different view on this matter, so re-iterating won't do much.

[Miss Friendship]

Who's place is it to judge?

[Spoon]

James 4:12, There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

-- Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:23 pm --

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

John 8:7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.

Romans 2:1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

[Miss Friendship]

You made my point. Obviously its God place to judge. And I'll let His words do so...

[Spoon]

And yet you feel comfortable judging certain people at certain times? Giving me whiplash here.

[Miss Friendship]

I didn't say that. As long as I only speak scripture and hold my judgments inside I can do both. Not judge. And also preach the gospel to every creature.....you see there are other commands we must obey as well.

[Eleventh Doctor]

You're not only speaking scripture though. You're interpreting that scripture. What you have said is "I have been saying time and time again, why not invest in God's bank which is real treasure?" There is not a verse that says invest in God's bank and there is for sure not a verse that says health insurance is not investing in God's bank.

[Miss Friendship]

Matthew 6:20 says "But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven..." I interpret that to say to put my treasure in heaven, how about you? And "lay up" seems to indicate a growing amount of treasure...A verse down says, "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" That tells me that wherever our treasure is, our heart will be too. So is your treasure in heaven or on earth?

How have I interpreted this wrongly?

[Eleventh Doctor]

I don't disagree with you in general but you take it to the specifics and say that if someone is planning ahead for medical emergencies or retirement then their treasure is here on earth. That is where it changes from interpretation to judging. The point Spoon and I have been trying to make is you've picked arbitrary things as a measure of having our treasure here on earth, the internet, clean water, or a car. Those are all relatively speaking wealthy for our time. How is it that you can have those things and not have your treasure on earth? Why don't you live like monastics and have no possessions? Wouldn't that be the best way to have your treasure in heaven?

[Miss Friendship]

You are completely missing my point. Treasures in Heaven don't come by getting rid of everything you have on earth--it comes through giving to the poor and needy. Your goal is on Heaven, not on how much you have....you work hard so you can keep giving... your whole focus is on a different Kingdom... can you understand that?

So maybe I have been pin-pointing certain things, but those aren't the problem. What I meant was the result of Kingdom-thinking will be less earth-focused which sort of puts Investing in this worlds system in a negative light. And when did I say health care was wrong? Didn't Obama just pass a law requiring everyone to get insured? Some things you can't avoid...

[Eleventh Doctor]

What do you mean by investing in the worlds system though? What specifically is involved in that?

The internet is a system of this world, why do you spend money on internet connection when you could be giving that to the poor? Why do you spend money on a car when that could be spent on the poor? Why do you spend money on indoor plumbing when you could have an outhouse and spend the rest of the money on the poor?

You gave the example of your brothers hospital bill being cut in half or something when I said people should be prepared for medical emergencies.

[Miss Friendship]

I'm speaking of putting money into the world and hoping to "get rich" from it. When we pay our internet bill every month, we know we are never going to see that money again, nor do we expect too. There is a difference between bills and investments.

We use internet, because that's part of my Dad's work... he is an office man. Not everyone needs internet, but some do. My brother is in training to be an IT Computer consultant; if any of you know what that is, you'll realize internet belongs in that field. Now if we were all farmers, internet would be only a pleasure, and not a need.

We spend money on a car because we want to get from one place to the next. But, I might add, we don't go for a 2015 brand. Something cheaper and simpler. See the difference?

If you feel you should be prepared for medical emergencies, go ahead. But I am just pointing out there is the option to use that money to save lives, and spread the gospel and trust God to take care of you when the time comes. Which he did with my brother's bill...

[Eleventh Doctor]

Okay so where do you see the Bible saying you shouldn't get returns on your money? I can totally see what you're saying about your treasure being in heaven versus earth but I don't see a command against making money. I mean I'm assuming your father invests money in his business hoping to see a return right?

So farmers shouldn't have internet?

I see the difference.

Okay, that's great for your brother but are you saying we should all expect the hospitals to cut our bills in every case? And if they don't then what?

[Miss Friendship]

Well I suppose if your investing and planning on including God in with your results, but often investments can be risky....as where steady working hard can bring in money with more certainty. I never said we shouldn't make money, we should.

I am not sure if Dad invests in his business...He just works, and his clients pay him. He is actually trying to cut back on the money-making job so he has time for ministry jobs, like talking to billboard callers.... But again, its not like my Dad is starting a new business either....

Farmers can have internet all they want!!! I was just suggesting a possible job that might not require internet to make it happen.

No, that might not happen to everyone. In fact that verse "my God shall supply your needs" in Philippians was written to the Philippian church who were known givers. So that verse is not for everyone. So I guess it depends on whether you want to step out in faith or not.

[SirWhit]

internet would be only a pleasure, and not a need.

I beg to differ. The internet is practically a necessity. It allows for near instantaneous communication across the world, among other things.