Wealth and the Kingdom of the God

What do you believe and why? Here's the place to discuss anything relating to church and God.
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Miss Friendship
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Blitz, if you are accusing me of being a sinner, I agree. We all have sinned. I am not denying that.
Blitz wrote:Your focusing so much on what we do, but isn't the price paid? Once you believe in Christ you are saved, sealed.
So you believe in eternal security? Well I happen to believe, based on scripture, that if we don't follow ALL of Christ's commands, then we don't love Him, and AREN'T going to heaven. And I can share a whole wealth of scriptures, if you'd like to hear them.
Blitz wrote:So according to your description of who is going to heaven, you aren't since you are rich.
Jesus didn't say money was a sin. He said "not giving, and wanting to make a hoarding profit" was a sin. So your argument that I'm saying "rich don't go to heaven" falls flat. Rich CAN go to heaven. But it's going to be harder for them than others... not impossible, just harder. Because they are going to have to be willing to let go of their possessions and give more to God, than what the poor can. Understand??

And there's a difference between judging, and warning. I thought that was something you all knew. If I was divorced, remarried and living in adultery, and thought I was a Christian, on my way to Heaven, and someone came and proved to me from the scriptures that I was wrong, what would you call that? Do you call that judging? Or a loving warning? That is a difference! And I hope you all can find the difference here.

I'm not sure "hospitals/doctors/physicians all got tied up in this. I blame Eleventh for bringing it up, and myself for commenting...but you have to understand I NEVER said or indicated doctors can't be saved! There are doctors in hell, and doctors in heaven. There is students in hell, and students in heaven. There are teachers in hell, and teachers in heaven. There are farmers in hell, and farmers in heaven. God calls everyone! But only a FEW find that narrow way according to Matthew 7:14 And I say if you argue against that, as Eleventh said, you are arguing against God!

I'm not attempting to argue with any of you, simply to make myself clear on how I stand. Am I clear?
Mr. Yorp wrote:If Rich is hording great sums of money and positions, than Christians are not to be rich. A Christian can be wealthy. Wealthy is having more than necessities.


I couldn't have said it better myself. Matthew 6:19 makes this very clear.
~Lady Friendship Knight of the Order of Chrysostom in the Court of the Debate Vampires~
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Eleventh Doctor
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if we don't follow ALL of Christ's commands, then we don't love Him, and AREN'T going to heaven.
Clarification, does that mean we must die perfect?

Also random question, what if before I was a Christian I got married then divorced and remarried? But then became a Christian.
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Miss Friendship
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No, but it means we should be attempting to follow all of them to the best of our ability and not be ignoring one of them, cause a "judgmental" person believes in it.

Say, you were married to one wife, and you became a Christian, would that erase your vow to her and you'd have to get married again? That logic doesn't really work. Accepting Jesus doesn't erase vows; marriage was ordained by God in the first place. Violating His plan can be forgiven, but that doesn't mean we should continue in sinning.
~Lady Friendship Knight of the Order of Chrysostom in the Court of the Debate Vampires~
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Eleventh Doctor
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Yeah we're not ignoring things because you believe in them.

I don't think I explained the hypothetical clearly. The hypothetical is this, before I was a Christian I was married and divorced but then still before I became a Christian I got married again to a different woman then became a Christian. What then?

Also just a historical note, vows in marriage ceremonies are a recent western invention not present in the Early Church.
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"It's particularly ignorant to assume malicious or ignorant intentions behind an opinion with which one disagrees." ~Connie
Spoon
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God didn't seem to have much of a problem with multiple wives in the old testament, Solomon had hundreds. Didn't prohibit this practice in the law, did He simply change His mind over time?
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Mandy
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You guys! It's ridiculous how you take almost every thing that miss friendship says so out of context and twist it to make it sound like something completely different than what she really means!

Can't you be a little it more... civil? smart? Unridiculous?

I hate the way you make Miss Friendship look like a complete idiot.

Sorry Miss Friendship hope you don't mind me saying this but it was bugging me!!! :(
Last edited by Mandy on Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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~Lady Mandy Knight of the
Order of Chrysostom in the
Court of the Debate Vampires~

MF: How much do you know about Helios?

Woody: Let's see. I know you survived her
drama, I know she's a danger to
society, I know she's a lie, I know
Belle is unfazed by her wrath, I
know she has ox horns, and I know
I should beware of her.

(And she is also my enemy. :evil: )
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Miss Friendship
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@ Eleventh How did they do a marriage then?

@Spoon Do you follow the old testament to the letter? Did God change his mind over time about stoning rebellious children? In the new testament, Jesus clearly says, "Who so putteth away his wife committeth adultery, and he that marrieth her that is divorced committeth adultery" Look it up!

@Eleventh How did the early Christians view divorce and remarriage?

I think its a good thing to remember that when discussing this subject, don't go to today's culture for answers. Jesus words don't change---thats what I want to draw my answers from.

Pssst Mandy! It bugs me too, but I don't want them to know it! :)
~Lady Friendship Knight of the Order of Chrysostom in the Court of the Debate Vampires~
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Eleventh Doctor
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Sorry can you clarify, do you mean how do they do a marriage before being a Christian or how did they do a marriage without vows?

Again, and I'm really trying to not be ridiculous or dumb, I think divorce is not good I know the early Christians held that view but at the same time I think there is room for grace. People are imperfect.

I'm not going to today's culture for my answers either.

Mandy, I'm not trying to take things out of context in fact I'm trying to put them in context and understand what Friendship is saying.
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Mandy
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:Sorry can you clarify, do you mean how do they do a marriage before being a Christian or how did they do a marriage without vows?

Again, and I'm really trying to not be ridiculous or dumb, I think divorce is not good I know the early Christians held that view but at the same time I think there is room for grace. People are imperfect.

I'm not going to today's culture for my answers either.

Mandy, I'm not trying to take things out of context in fact I'm trying to put them in context and understand what Friendship is saying.
@ Eleventh. I'm not talking about you in particular. I just thought it was completely hysterical that some off you actually thought (or at least pretended to think that Miss Friendship was saying that if you are a docter you arre definitely not a Christian. I mean, how insane is that?!!!

And some off you still persist in thinking that she said anyone with lots of money will definitely go to hell.

Ahem!
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~Lady Mandy Knight of the
Order of Chrysostom in the
Court of the Debate Vampires~

MF: How much do you know about Helios?

Woody: Let's see. I know you survived her
drama, I know she's a danger to
society, I know she's a lie, I know
Belle is unfazed by her wrath, I
know she has ox horns, and I know
I should beware of her.

(And she is also my enemy. :evil: )
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Miss Friendship
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Well I was meaning with no vows, but I wouldn't mind hearing how it was done the other way too.
~Lady Friendship Knight of the Order of Chrysostom in the Court of the Debate Vampires~
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I am a personal quirk. --Adrian Dreamwalker
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Eleventh Doctor
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You do it with no vows like this: http://www.goarch.org/chapel/liturgical_texts/wedding Like I said, vows are a recent innovation.

As for the other thing, lots of non-Christians get married. I don't understand the confusion on that point.
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"It's particularly ignorant to assume malicious or ignorant intentions behind an opinion with which one disagrees." ~Connie
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Miss Friendship
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Well that all sounds very grand, but it seems to me a bit controlling of the church not to let the groom and bride say a word in edgewise.

Yeah, I guess I know how non Christians marry.
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Eleventh Doctor
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Actually, wouldn't saying vows be breaking the command about women not speaking in church?

Miss Friendship, you shouldn't be going to modern culture and agreeing with them that the wedding ceremony is all about the bride and groom and what they want to say.
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"It's particularly ignorant to assume malicious or ignorant intentions behind an opinion with which one disagrees." ~Connie
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Miss Friendship
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You have a point...although you could fix it by getting married outdoors. I'm kidding. Well a wedding is different than a normal church service....

Another good point...so the church shouldn't be controlling, but neither should it be focused on the bride and groom....I am glad I am not planning a wedding. Maybe its safer to not get married, if there's no way to do it scripturally.
~Lady Friendship Knight of the Order of Chrysostom in the Court of the Debate Vampires~
AKA Countess Concordia of the Chat, Regalia, and the Queen of Sarcasm

I am a personal quirk. --Adrian Dreamwalker
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Eleventh Doctor
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I have a question, where does the Bible talk about how Christians should do wedding services? How does one do a wedding scripturally?
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Blitz
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Oh for the love of all that is good why are we talking about wedding ceremonies???

A king actually was prohibited from taking multiple wives despite their disobeying that law. Solomon broke many laws of being an Israelite king therefor the empire split.

Ah yes 1 John a rather interesting book which also is highly misinterpreted.

I would also like point out that only about 1/7 of the world population is counted Christian, bring it down to 1/10 for hypocrites etc. you have a few.

Anyway, I am retiring from this debate. Totally sick of it.
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Eleventh Doctor
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But David a man after Gods own heart had multiple wives and he only got in trouble when he killed a man to steal his wife. Jacob had two wives. Also where is this command against multiple wives on the OT?
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"It's particularly ignorant to assume malicious or ignorant intentions behind an opinion with which one disagrees." ~Connie
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Mandy
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I am with you Blitz on thinking that this debate is silly and pointless. Wedding ceremonies? Whatever. I thought this was supposed to be about wealth and riches??!
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~Lady Mandy Knight of the
Order of Chrysostom in the
Court of the Debate Vampires~

MF: How much do you know about Helios?

Woody: Let's see. I know you survived her
drama, I know she's a danger to
society, I know she's a lie, I know
Belle is unfazed by her wrath, I
know she has ox horns, and I know
I should beware of her.

(And she is also my enemy. :evil: )
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Miss Friendship
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:I have a question, where does the Bible talk about how Christians should do wedding services? How does one do a wedding scripturally?
I don't know. Are you planning one? :)

Good point, Mandy. These debating threads do take crazy twists in the conversation line.

Is there any question that God allowed many wives in the OT? He did. But I think from the beginning,God preferred one man one woman...which seems to be what Jesus taught.
~Lady Friendship Knight of the Order of Chrysostom in the Court of the Debate Vampires~
AKA Countess Concordia of the Chat, Regalia, and the Queen of Sarcasm

I am a personal quirk. --Adrian Dreamwalker
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Eleventh Doctor
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No plans in the immediate future.

But the others are right, this thread has taken a crazy twist and I have been too harsh at times. So I ask forgiveness for that and will bow out of this debate.
King of The Lands of Rhetoric, Lord Ruler of the Debate Vampires, and Duke of Quebec

"It's particularly ignorant to assume malicious or ignorant intentions behind an opinion with which one disagrees." ~Connie
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