Should Christians (Followers of Jesus) go to War?

[Miss Friendship]

That's your interpretation. He actually condemned the use of the sword, and mentioned anyone who uses it will die by it. I don't see Jesus stopping Peter on the basis that a great event was about to unfold.

[HomeschoolCowgirl]

I'm going to leave now...

[Blitz]

Living by the sword is different than simply using a sword. Living by the sword means like being a blood luster. Some one who loves to fight and kill. Anyway we are not separate completely from the world because we are commanded to obey the government.

[Wakko]

Living by the sword is different than simply using a sword. Living by the sword means like being a blood luster. Some one who loves to fight and kill. Anyway we are not separate completely from the world because we are commanded to obey the government.

This. I'm pretty sure you can't disagree with this post.

[Miss Friendship]

Well I would interpret "living by the sword" to mean, that if there ever is a need for it, it will be used. Peter wasn't a blood thirsty savage, and yet Jesus rebuked him for "living by the sword." He was putting a level of trust into the sword.

Obeying the government and becoming part of it are two completely different things. Yes, we are in the world, but we don't have to be of it.

[Wakko]

Again, Jesus rebuked him for trying to stop the most important event ever.
How is voting becoming part of the government? How is that being of the world for that matter? I think that, that verse is talking about not engaging in sin, not completely being apart from the government.

[Miss Friendship]

Well I agree it was a most important event, but I don't see Jesus rebuking him for those reasons.

Voting is putting your full interest in the worlds affairs and in a sense taking part in its descisions. I'd say its "loving the world, the other Kingdom" rather than "becoming part of the government"

[Eleventh Doctor]

That may be what it says to you but I think Christians can be involved in government and need to in fact. Today it would be impossible to be good stewards of our world, like we are commanded to, without being involved in government. We would be poor stewards of our resources if we weren't involved in government.

[Mr. Yorp]

@MF: So, only wicked people should be in control? Say that if you don't vote the wicked person gets into office and orders a bunch of people to be killed in a unnecessary . Should you not have prevented that from happening by voting for a man of God?

@11th
Agreed.

[Miss Friendship]

Define what you mean by "wicked" ? Do you think our President today is a wicked and evil leader? Can you point to any US Presidents who were this way? One doesn't have to be a Kingdom Christian to be fair, and a good ruler.

As mentioned before in Romans, God works through leaders and uses them to accomplish His purpose. But for His Kingdom, that He will be taking away from the fate of the World, we don't get involved in these affairs because we are not of this world. Jesus made that very clear while He was here on earth... Jesus could have sought to change the society by voting in or out great leaders. But good leaders only last so long. We can change the world around us, I just don't think its through politics, it through the Church. If the Church is what is supposed to be, the world will change. Salt and light.

Do you really think we can mix the World (the dark Kingdom) with Jesus's Kingdom? That never works. Would Hitler have welcomed a "good" American General to work in his army camp? I don't think so. Their values and goals are worlds apart. You either stick with your Kingdom, or leave it.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Jesus couldn't have sought change by voting since He lived in an empire. But also that wasn't why He was here but at the same time we're called to live like Jesus not live every detail of His life, if that were the case none of us should ever get married.

You say that we can change the world around us but how can you say that? Wouldn't that be mixing the world and Jesus' Kingdom?

Okay so I just need to say this, stop making comparisons to Hitler and the Nazis. You're ignoring the complexity of the situation and trying to demonize your opponents. Also where does this dark kingdom thing come from? I think you're really overemphasizing the divide between the world and Christians.

[Miss Friendship]

I think Hitler is a small comparison to Satan and his camp, no matter what you think. If you want me to use another wicked leader as an example, I can do that, but I think you are missing my point.

For example, during the time between Jesus and Constantine, when the Christians still followed Jesus teachings on non-resistance, I have read that the Roman Empire was at peace. They had no major wars. The historians have a theory for why this was, but someone pointed out that the Christians were doing their job by praying for their government, and obeying Jesus's command of no violence. What do you have? A nation that enjoys peace. I don't think that is mixing the two Kingdoms. The Christians were holding fast to their convictions, and the government wasnt pretending to be Christian.

I used the word "dark" because the two Kingdoms have often been compared as the difference between dark and light.

I think you aren't making enough of the divide there should be.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I think it's lazy debating to go straight to Hitler all the time.

You are not reading the right history books then. Constantine came to power during a massive civil war, one of many. Also this was a time of great persecution against Christians and that's your golden age of the world?

I guess we know where we disagree then.

[Miss Friendship]

I'll try to use someone else next time.

Maybe I mixed up my facts with a different time period. I'll look into it. Persucution actually keeps a lot of worldliness out of the Church. It really puts a separation there...which ease, pleasure and freedom has a way of erasing.

I learned to disagree with you long ago.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Persecution also kills people and limits growth in other ways, for example during persecution the Church couldn't have councils that led to things like the defining of the Trinity or the Biblical canon. Those were only possible during times when the government had outlawed the persecution of Christians.

[Miss Friendship]

Why couldn't they have just studied the Bible?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Did you not see where I said one of the councils was defining what the Biblical canon was?

[Miss Friendship]

I missed that. OK, so the councils needed to congregate. Although my opinion is that too many councils can result in disagreements thus causing confusion. Did that ever happen?
*bad experience with the "council" meetings of today*

[Eleventh Doctor]

I think we're not on the same page of what a council is, what do you mean by council?

When I say council I mean an authoritative meeting of the synod or council of bishops in a certain area. Eccumenical Councils being all of the bishops of the Church.

[Miss Friendship]

Yes we do mean different things.

You mean bishops. I mean leaders in a church.

I was comapring the councils of then to the meetings that go on today between churches...not necessarily Orthodox however.