Should Christians (Followers of Jesus) go to War?

[Miss Friendship]

Okay let's redirect the topic a bit then. What about monarchs? Can they not be part of the Kingdom of God since they are rulers here on earth?

The Kingdom of God is available to everyone. People from very high and influential places have been known to abandon their wealth and promising future to serve God and in so doing, scorned by their family and disinherited. However I can't think of a particular Monarch doing this.

[SirWhit]

So do you think it's impossible for someone to be wealthy and saved at the same time?

[Miss Friendship]

Of course not. But generally, as they continue to follow Christ, they give up their worldly possessions and live a more simpler life. C.T. Studd is a good example of this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Studd

[Eleventh Doctor]

How about Stephen the Great who protected all of Europe from the invasion of the Ottoman Empire? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_III_of_Moldavia

Olga of Kiev brought Christianity to Ukraine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_of_Kiev

Grand Duchess Elisabeth of Russia is another notable example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_E ... 80%931918)

[Miss Friendship]

Who am I to judge? They obviously claimed the Christian faith. So, compare their lives to Jesus's words, and if you find their lives in harmony with that, I'd say, yes, they were saved.

[HomeschoolCowgirl]

Hey we aren't a doormat! We are part of a Kingdom that we know is going to win. That's nothing to be ashamed about.

So we're part of a kingdom that is "going to win", but you don't want to help fight for it?

On the subject of monarchs, you would also have to include Christian government workers, "allying" with Earthly governments.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I do find their lives in harmony with Jesus' words. They are all Saints within the Orthodox Church.

However to give another example more in line with your views consider the lives of Boris and Gleb: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_and_Gleb

[Miss Friendship]

So we're part of a kingdom that is "going to win", but you don't want to help fight for it?

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

On the subject of monarchs, you would also have to include Christian government workers, "allying" with Earthly governments.

Right. So I would say if Monarch truly wishes to become a part of God's Kingdom, he would leave his throne, unless he could remain on it without fighting wars, and everything else that Jesus forbids. Which...well...they would probably get rid him if that were the case.

I do find their lives in harmony with Jesus' words. They are all Saints within the Orthodox Church.

However to give another example more in line with your views consider the lives of Boris and Gleb: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_and_Gleb

That's an interesting story. Never had heard of them before...

All though, I will note that Stephen the Great fought in battles... that would go against Jesus's words.

[HomeschoolCowgirl]

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I will agree on this. But are you saying that those are the ONLY kind of battles we fight??

[Eleventh Doctor]

All though, I will note that Stephen the Great fought in battles... that would go against Jesus's words.

I disagree, after all David was a king after God's own heart and he fought in battles. Now it is important to note that David was not allowed to build the temple. I do think that war and killing are bad and do separate us from God but they are sometimes necessary and some people are called to defend others, like David.

[HomeschoolCowgirl]

Thank you 11th, I have been wanting to mention David but it didn't fit before now.
Also, what about those in the armies of Israel fighting in wars to defend or conquer their land?

[Miss Friendship]

But are you saying that those are the ONLY kind of battles we fight??

Maybe not. But it does say in plain black and white that we DON'T fight against flesh and blood. So if it's flesh and blood, it's not our enemy.

I disagree, after all David was a king after God's own heart and he fought in battles. Now it is important to note that David was not allowed to build the temple. I do think that war and killing are bad and do separate us from God but they are sometimes necessary and some people are called to defend others, like David.

So Stephen the Great lived in the time of the OT?? Did he ever take into account this verse?

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:

Notice the "ye have heard that it hath been said" so it was one way. And then Jesus changed it to another way.

Also, what about those in the armies of Israel fighting in wars to defend or conquer their land?

Again, that was before the NEW WAY.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Yet the NT also says that the government, including kings, wield the sword for good as servants of God. Anyway, you have your convictions and as you constantly say who are you to judge?

[Miss Friendship]

Yet the NT also says that the government, including kings, wield the sword for good as servants of God. Anyway, you have your convictions and as you constantly say who are you to judge?

Right. But as you say, "I'm asking for your opinion"

Does being a "servant of God" mean they belong to His Kingdom?

[Eleventh Doctor]

I think that one can belong to His Kingdom and be a servant of God by wielding the sword for good. I think being a servant of God can mean belonging to His Kingdom. I don't see anywhere in the NT that says you can't be a king.

[Miss Friendship]

I think that one can belong to His Kingdom and be a servant of God by wielding the sword for good. I think being a servant of God can mean belonging to His Kingdom. I don't see anywhere in the NT that says you can't be a king.

Right. But Jesus does say "don't fight." And in the world, Kings aren't considered good Kings unless they fight for their country.

[Eleventh Doctor]

So God changed His mind from the Old Testament to the New Testament? He changed His nature?

[Miss Friendship]

So God changed His mind from the Old Testament to the New Testament? He changed His nature?

Nope. He fulfilled His plan through Jesus. Remember the verse on divorce in Matthew.

He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

"But from the beginning it was not so." Therefore God preferred no divorce, but in the OT He made exceptions. So it was always in His nature.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I would agree with you that no violence is the norm and best way to live but some times exceptions must be made.

[Mr. Yorp]

Why did Jesus use violence in the Temple?