Should Christians (Followers of Jesus) go to War?

[Miss Friendship]

That's true

[Wodfamchocsod]

Do you think we are in the kingdom now Miss Friendship?

[Miss Friendship]

The Kingdom of God is in our hearts... but sometime it will become a reality in Heaven.

[Wodfamchocsod]

The Kingdom of God is in our hearts... but sometime it will become a reality in Heaven.

What exactly do you mean by in our hearts?

[Miss Friendship]

Well I suppose I mean we have a chance to live the Kingdom, but we aren't "in" the Kingdom yet. We are still living in the world, where Satan is in authority. We live by the Kingdom rules, and serve our King Jesus, but we are strangers and foreigners here on this earth.

[Wodfamchocsod]

Well I suppose I mean we have a chance to live the Kingdom, but we aren't "in" the Kingdom yet. We are still living in the world, where Satan is in authority. We live by the Kingdom rules, and serve our King Jesus, but we are strangers and foreigners here on this earth.

So...do you believe that Jesus has actually set up His kingdom one earth here?

[Miss Friendship]

What did I just say? No. Take a look at all the nations in this world. Any of them strike you as Jesus's Kingdom? It's still coming. But that's not to say we, as followers of Jesus, live by the Kingdoms rules as an ambassadors here on this earth.

[Blitz]

The Kingdom of God does not refer to Heaven actually. The Kingdom of God is actually more guided towards the Jews. The Kingdom of God refers to the earthly kingdom which will come.

[Miss Friendship]

So you don't believe we are all Jews, added into the Vine?

[Blitz]

I don't believe we are all Jews. I believe in a difference between the Jew and the Greek.

[Eleventh Doctor]

What do you do then with verses that say there are no Jews or Greeks in Christ anymore?

[NinjaThrowingStar]

Do you realize, Woody, how many Wars since Constantine have been fought in the name of "Christian" ? If Christians had always obeyed Jesus, and never fought, WW2 would not have happened. Hitler was fighting under the name of Christian, (I think I am getting my facts right anyway) And realize also that the Kingdom of Heaven is different from the Kingdom of this World. The World will always fight the World's problems. And if everyone believe what Jesus literally taught, there would be no wars in the first place.
Also you said, "should we have backed down in World War 2." Anyone who names the name of Christ should have refrained from going to War. For the rest of the United States, the Kingdom of this World, they fought, cause they didn't want a Tyrant ruling their country.
It's not like Christians stand by and do nothing either. We are instructed to pray for the leaders of our country. And I have heard examples of non-resistant Christians who blessed their country by faithfully praying--and their country experiencing no War at all.

Miss friendship you, yourself defined Christianity as those who follow Jesus' teaching, Hitler by no means fits this definition. Hitler taught that there was one "holy/pure/perfect" race. That was his reason for killing all the Jews, anyone who wasn't hetrosexual, autistic people and anyone who went against his ideal of "right". History is flawed. It's never 100% fact. (Also Hitler had a great grandmother who was Jewish... this hasn't been proven. But Hitler said the highest race was white, blond and blue eyed... Hitler was white, brown eyed and black haired....) This form of belief has been linked to Darwinism. As Mr. Foolish already pointed out Christian in our age has no clear definition.

I didn't mean to give the impression that i think all police officers do is kill. i don't think that, but i do know that they might have to sometimes. Could someone who would never kill anyone, under any circumstance, become a police officer? i don't think so.

Killing is not always avoidable. You can say what you would like to but it just isn't always avoidable. You talk your best friend into jumping off a cliff with you and that friend dies. (Yes it could have been avoided but you weren't trying to kill the person) You cook a mean for your family and you don't know someone is allergic to seafood and you use crab they die. (Yes it could have been avoided but you didn't mean to kill the person) the list can go on. People die it happens. Sometimes another person is involved in the death. This kind of killing is no ones fault. If you never did anything that could possible kill someone you couldn't breath, you wouldn't be able to live life.




Okay my thoughts.... War should be avoided at all cost. As long as you are dealing with a reasonable country who is willing to work out their differences, there should be no firing of weapons or killing of any kind politically. As soon as that country stops being reasonable and keeping their word (they have broken trust, they are taking things that aren't theirs, they are hurting your country people etc) then defence is in order. They are no longer a friends or reasonable person. War is okay.

As for if Christians should fight in wars or not. They should. They need to! First off, they are followers of Jesus on they way to heaven, they have nothing to fear. Secondly, they are fighting for peace. Yes they may have to kill (most humans cannot kill another person unless they have been trained to kill or feel they have no other choice.) But they will not be there to kill but to make peace and yes sometimes peace has to be found at the end of a gun. War is not ideal but you have gone way past ideal if you are in war so you need to end it as soon as possible.

Self defence. The word defence means you have tried other ways to make peace and they aren't working. Unprovoked self defence is fine. If you are asking for a fight by taking something (say stealing a car) or by not doing something you have agreed to do (say you agreed to not get drunk but now) then you need to fix your actions!!! But if someone is trying to hurt you or your family, I don't think it's wrong to stop them. Killing is a last resort but I don't see it as wring for a Christian to do if they had no other choice. (I.E you are being raped and the rapest won't stop with word or other physical demands. You may shoot them by all means, fire away!)

[Miss Friendship]

Miss friendship you, yourself defined Christianity as those who follow Jesus' teaching, Hitler by no means fits this definition.

Never said he did. My point is that many leaders have said they are Christians, but were clearly not, by the lives they lived. And I agree Hitler had a lot of Darwin's influence upon him.

As for if Christians should fight in wars or not. They should. They need to! First off, they are followers of Jesus on they way to heaven, they have nothing to fear.

First off, I think you need to realize that salvation doesn't guarentee a straight ticket to heaven. That's the doctrine of "eternal security" and the Bible clearly says "many will fall away." Also, salvation is only the first step, Christians must then live the Kingdom of God as it will be in Heaven. Let me ask you, will there be any killing in Heaven? No. So as a citizen of that Kingdom, we go by Heaven's rules, because it's our job to show to the world what Heaven will look like.

If you insist of fighting for your country, you are joining up forces with a Kingdom other than Heaven...thus, dare I say it? Committing treason? Think about that.

Self defence. The word defence means you have tried other ways to make peace and they aren't working.

If Christians were supposed to defend in the physical realm then I wonder why I don't see Jesus defending himself at the cross. He had tried many different ways of making peace with the people who hated him, but did he fight back? We all know if He would have, we wouldn't have been given the means to reconcile God. The very definition of "Christian" I once heard could be translated to mean "little Christ" So we never have an example of Jesus in self-defense and there is without a doubt that He taught his followers the same.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

(I.E you are being raped and the rapest won't stop with word or other physical demands. You may shoot them by all means, fire away!)

And send that person straight to hell? I agree, rape is horrible. I cringe at the thought, but I cringe even more at shooting someone after I promised Jesus I'd love my enemies and live out his Kingdom on this earth. Besides, it's not like those situations just walk into our life. God never allows something that He can't give us the grace to handle.

Yes, our instinct is to protect ourselves and family and fire away, but that's the oldest method in the book. Jesus has a new way. Take it or leave it. Violence never can stop violence. It comes from the same source.

[HomeschoolCowgirl]

Let me ask you, will there be any killing in Heaven? No. So as a citizen of that Kingdom, we go by Heaven's rules, because it's our job to show to the world what Heaven will look like.

But we are not living in Heaven right now. Sometimes it is necessary to kill in self defense: if the situation is that someone is trying to kill you right now, had pointed a gun at you and was fixing to shoot, would you simply sit there and let him/her do it?

If you insist of fighting for your country, you are joining up forces with a Kingdom other than Heaven...thus, dare I say it? Committing treason? Think about that.

So you do not believe that there are any causes worth fighting for on Earth? And if you do find a cause worth fighting for, are you not going to want someone, or lots of someones, to help you? I agree you would not be alone, you would have God on your side, but most battles in the physical sense are not won by a single person fighting a large army.


On another note, what do you think about draft? Would you refuse?

[Eleventh Doctor]

There are reasons to be against the draft besides anti-violence.

[Miss Friendship]

But we are not living in Heaven right now. Sometimes it is necessary to kill in self defense: if the situation is that someone is trying to kill you right now, had pointed a gun at you and was fixing to shoot, would you simply sit there and let him/her do it?

No we are not in Heaven yet, but does that erase all the rules we as citizens have? Look, I am not saying non-resistance is easy, but rather it's the way Jesus taught. If someone pointed a gun at me and was intending to use it, and I picked up my gun and shot him, that would be like denying Christ. Jesus said that if I love Him, I will obey what He says. And when he says "love your enemies" He means just that.

So you do not believe that there are any causes worth fighting for on Earth?

There are many causes worth fighting for on Earth. As a Christian, we are in battles all the time. In fact, we fight much greater than the General on the battlefield ever will. We are engaged in spiritual warfare. Satan doesn't give up after we turn our lives over to Christ. The walk Jesus preached was called "straight and narrow" for a reason. It's not easy, and the Devil is after our souls. But if we have a limited understanding, and think a non-resistance Christian isn't fighting just because he loves the man who thrusts a gun in his face, we need to learn otherwise.

On another note, what do you think about draft? Would you refuse?

You mean an army draft? Well my grandfather worked in a hospital during a war as a Conscientious Objector. There are other alternatives to fighting. And if they forced you to join...fine. But you'd never be forced to kill someone.

[TigerShadow]

Out of curiosity, MissFriendship, what do you think of the idea that some people feel led to follow Romans 13 and honor their country by fighting for it?

[Miss Friendship]

Out of curiosity, MissFriendship, what do you think of the idea that some people feel led to follow Romans 13 and honor their country by fighting for it?

In Romans 13, Paul is teaching us the roles our government and leaders have in our country. Of course you can interpret this chapter to say God is making allowance for War, if we are to obey the powers over us. But we also know Peter had to say "we ought to obey God rather than men" to the ones in authority over him. Its obvious that Jesus taught love, non violence and to turn the other cheek--none of this goes against honoring the ones God has placed in authority over us.

And I would question why someone feels they should obey Romans 13 and fight for their country, when they would be ignoring Jesus's commands on this very subject.

[Eleventh Doctor]

What about verses 3-4? For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

This seems to say that one who bears the sword is God's minister.

[Miss Friendship]

Well first of all, you have to understand that word "minister" doesn't carry the same meaning as it does to us today. It would be more correctly translated as "servant" This same word is used to describe King Nebuchadnezzar in the old Testament. God is God. The world may be in the grasp of Satan, but nothing happens without God's permission. I believe this is saying that God uses leaders, even wicked leaders like Hitler, to accomplish His will and further His kingdom.

So yes God has power over everyone, He even uses the Leaders that use the sword to accompish what He chooses to happen.

This interpretation of Romans 13 always made the most sense to me...because it can seem rather confusing and conflicting with other parts of the NT.