Duggar Debate

[Liz'alike]

I'm going to intercede for just one fine moment and inject an opinion.
Whitfan, picture this: You and your family have been so anxiously awaiting this new child for 5 months! By this time you've probably picked a name! You've probably also started picking a new selection of clothes for this baby. Maybe even decided what this new beautiful child is going to wear when it comes home from the hospital!
Then, just as quickly as this baby was here, now it's gone. You're devastated! It was part of the family (for I believe in life in the womb!)

Some families grieve in different ways. Some would quietly bury the child. Some might pretend the baby never exsited... But we all grieve!
For the Duggars, obviously they needed a way that they could let this part of their family go. For it was part of the family. For them it was a funeral. Funerals in theory are designed to let someone go. To say good bye. For some it would be "see ya later!"

So that's my personal opinion. I don't see it as morbid, but as a way to say "See ya later! I know you're in a good place and we love you so much!!"
So I suppose it saying goodbye to someone you love is morbid, than yes, it is. I imagine I would do something very similar if that happened to me...

[Whitfan]

You guys have changed my mind about this. It is not morbid to mourn a baby. They can do anything they want to grieve for the child. So I am saying that it's not morbid. I just mean its weird to do this. But it's their choice as to what to do when a little one goes to Heaven. Sorry if I said anything to offend anyone.

I need to ask this: why is this topic in the church forum? Yes they are Christians or whatever, so I just say let the Duggars be the Duggars.

[GuatemalaGirl19]

I love the Duggars! I actually got to meet them too. They were in Charlotte, NC for a book signing.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Bumping this because of recent news: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfem ... eport.html

Have you heard about this? What do you think about the situation?

[TigerShadow]

I'd heard snatches of it through Tumblr, but I hadn't gotten the full story until now. Frankly, I'm not really surprised. That's not to say I was expecting it to happen, but it doesn't shock me either. Statistically speaking, the idea of having over nineteen kids and all of them turning out to be decent people is laughable. It's tragic that this happened, but it wouldn't surprise me if this was rooted in the rather disturbing levels of control that are given to fathers in the ideology that the Duggars hold. (To be honest, I have trouble taking anyone who holds to Christian Patriarchy seriously.)

[Audrey]

Dang it, guys, I was going to make a topic about this. xD

I apologize to my friends who I have talked to over the past 24 hours because I've been talking their ears off. d=

Frankly, this disgusts me. It's not even just the situation, because there's so much to say about that on its own, it's the fact that people are defending him!

Yes, it was 10 years ago. But no investigation or form of punishment besides manual labor in Little Rock, AK, was ever carried out, despite FIVE GIRLS being victims, so I don't see what's wrong with bringing it up so people can be aware of the situation. To quote a commenter (and trust me, this is only one of hundreds of similar comments) "This was something that has been already taken care of and its stupid to even have it affecting the current situation." How on earth was it taken care of? The family didn't report it for over a year and by the time everything actually came out, it was too late to take any legal action. Meanwhile, the poor girls still had to see him all the time knowing that all he had to do was talk to his parents and some elders at his church. Oh yeah, and file a police report while talking to a state trooper who was a close family friend and is now spending 56 years in prison for child pornography.

Yes, he was fifteen. Here's a quote from one of the many comments supporting him, taken from the 19 Kids and Counting Facebook page. " By my count he was 15 when he made a bad decision.... kids make mistakes." THAT DOES NOT EXCUSE THE SITUATION. I'm sixteen, my little brother is 13, and my other little brother is 10. We all know not to do something like this! All of us! That is not just a mistake, that is a CRIME.

When it comes to pulling the show from the air, I think it's the least TLC can do considering while the story broke, they were airing a 19 Kids and Counting marathon. Whether or not the show should be canceled I'm conflicted about, because while I do not support their lifestyle, that won't change whether or not they're being filmed, and I know a lot of people genuinely enjoy the show. Right now I'm leaning towards Josh never being shown again or something.

And besides. They pulled Honey Boo Boo, a show with even higher ratings, off the air permanently because the mom was associating with a child molester. They're in a tough position right now because seriously, double standard much?

It may have been in the past, but just because he is a Duggar does NOT make it excusable. People serve lifetime sentences in prison for things "done in the past", and we're certainly not saying "he was just a kid put the show back on" (to quote yet another commentator). That is so. not. okay.

I just feel so, so bad for the victims right now. It's very obvious who they are, which is horrible enough because I'm sure they don't want something like this discussed in public, but no one is really saying anything about them and what they're going through. It's all "I feel sorry for Josh, the past is in the past". Would you say that to the girls who he molested? "It was in the past, get over it and put the show back on, you're fine now."

Okay, I could go off on this for hours. I've ranted too much to Nelson and Gooey already. So yeah. if you're defending him right now, I have absolutely no respect for you, sorry.

[Eleventh Doctor]

The show needs to be cancelled, he is a product of his environment and he is not this way despite of his parents teachings but because of them. Both his parents knew about this and did nothing. This family should neither be put on display nor shown so they can be emulated.

[Miss Friendship]

While I don't agree with Eleventh's rash judgments and obvious dislike of the Duggars, I do agree they have problems like anyone else, and an excess amount of "being put on display" on TV cannot be healthy to a family at anytime. I believe one of their desires is to be a witness, but I see a gradual change over the family that wasn't there some years ago.

As for the whole thing surrounding Josh, it's only "shocking" and a matter of interest, because the family was portrayed as nearly perfect. (Josh should have been properly punished, regardless of whether the world found out or not.)

[Wakko]

While I don't agree with Eleventh's rash judgments and obvious dislike of the Duggars, I do agree they have problems like anyone else, and an excess amount of "being put on display" on TV cannot be healthy to a family at anytime. I believe one of their desires is to be a witness, but I see a gradual change over the family that wasn't there some years ago.

As for the whole thing surrounding Josh, it's only "shocking" and a matter of interest, because the family was portrayed as nearly perfect. (Josh should have been properly punished, regardless of whether the world found out or not.)

I actually do like the show, (it's my guilty pleasure show because of how obviously superficial it is, xD) but I also think that the show could be cancelled. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that this may have happened before the show came on the air, if not soon after it.

[Stella C.]

TLC just announced that the show was officially pulled from the lineup.

[GabrielleFandomGirl]

TLC just announced that the show was officially pulled from the lineup.

Well, do you know if it is pulled for good?

[Audrey]

That's what I mentioned in my post (I think). No, it's not pulled for good, but temporarily they will not be airing new reruns or episodes. Pulling it from the lineup is different than canceling it, which is probably what's going to happen.

[Pound Foolish]

I have to say, Audrey, part of me sees their point of view. A kid is a kid. According to the article Eleventh provided, he was maybe as young as fourteen, rather than fifteen. A kid that young is just that: literally a little kid. Obviously he was a very wrong in the head kid. But when you start talking of sending people to jail for life, my word. He was fifteen or fourteen, it would be like sending him to jail for something he did when he was five. Which isn't to say he shouldn't do any time at all, he probably should. But life, chyeesh. I'm not saying you were saying he should get life, you didn't, but you mentioned the option tennyrate.

That being said, nothing I've said about the punishment makes anything he did less shameful. What he did is one of the heinous crimes a human can commit. Duh.

The Duggars definitely have a generally messed up family. This is a new low, though. By an unfathomable amount. It begs all the overused online terms one tries to avoid: scandal, shocking, coverup, etc. It's just so sick and dirty and the way the handled is just beyond wrong. It's worrisome so many people look to this family as a model.

PS Tiger, there really isn't any limit on how many kids you have. You have as many or little as you're called to by God. And I just don't get your argument. Having that many and them all turning out well is a gamble so... what? Because odds are there may be a bad one among that many kids, you should have fewer to avoid the stats?

Keep in mind, in many countries people still have about that many kids and it often works fine. Heck, poor people still often do that right here in America. People who can't afford to and supposedly are irresponsible therefore for having them. But poor families are often fairly happy in their way. And for centuries large families were normal, including in America for a time. This idea that families need to be small is a relatively new, unproven one.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I'd have to disagree on he was just a kid, 14 or 15 is too old for this kind of stuff to be written up as just a kid. He should have known better at that age.

Also I notice that your post like all the official statements from the family make no mention of his victims. They seem to be getting ignored in all of this, even if he was just a kid his victims were much younger.

[GabrielleFandomGirl]

Well, he may have had psychological problems. Actually, he MUST have.

[Miss Friendship]

Well, he may have had psychological problems. Actually, he MUST have.

What? You mean more than normal?

I agree with Eleventh. What of the victims? Especially the one that wasn't his sister. *shivers*

[Eleventh Doctor]

Actually PF the reason to have lots of kids comes from the idea that you need hands for the farm, girls to marry off for their dowry, and to make up for the high infant mortality rate. There's no reason in our modern society to have 19 children, however recent that idea maybe it's still a legitimate view.

[Miss Friendship]

And for centuries large families were normal, including in America for a time. This idea that families need to be small is a relatively new, unproven one.

That is true. I'm the oldest of 7, and although many consider that a large family, I'd say it's about normal.

the reason to have lots of kids comes from the idea that you need hands for the farm, girls to marry off for their dowry, and to make up for the high infant mortality rate.

Wouldn't the idea of a large family come from the Bible? God promoted large families.

[GabrielleFandomGirl]

It is not normal, Miss Friendship, the average number of children is one to three per family.

[Miss Friendship]

It is not normal, Miss Friendship, the average number of children is one to three per family.

Normal for the last 100 years maybe. Oh well... my family isn't normal, who cares. But I simply can't imagine life with only my brother and one sister?? What do families do for excitement with only 2 or 3??