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Wodfamchocsod
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Mr. Whit's End wrote:But that doesn't mean that we can lead a sinful lifestyle and still go to heaven. Let's say I, a Christian, commit a murder and am thoroughly unrepentant. Will I still go to heaven?
Yes, you will go to heaven, even if you make a bad mistake by choosing a sinful lifestyle.
Now, that is a sin and a terrible thing to do, and a Christian should never do it.
Mr. whit's End, I think you're missing the point of Christ dying for us. Christ died for sinners, to pay our penalty. We are sinners and murderers. Christ died for us, sinners and murderers. When we are placed into Christ, Christ forgives our sins past, present, and future so that we can enter into heaven and be seen by Christ as holy as He is.
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SirWhit
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Can you provide me with some verses that support your statement?
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jehoshaphat
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1 John 1:8-9: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

No sin can enter heaven, if a man commits a sin he must confess it to be forgiven. Yes Christ Died for our sins but we still sin. Just because Christ died for us does not mean we will all go to heaven. Hitler confessed Christianity, does this mean he is in heaven? I don't know, and I can't condemn him either. But just because he professed Christianity does not mean he will be in heaven with the rest of us. The verse about uses "if we confess, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins." Only the sins that are confessed will be forgiven. The belief you profess is just utterly wrong and unaccepting of the reality that sin cuts us off from the grace of God.
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Wodfamchocsod
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jehoshaphat wrote:1 John 1:8-9: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

No sin can enter heaven, if a man commits a sin he must confess it to be forgiven. Yes Christ Died for our sins but we still sin. Just because Christ died for us does not mean we will all go to heaven. Hitler confessed Christianity, does this mean he is in heaven? I don't know, and I can't condemn him either. But just because he professed Christianity does not mean he will be in heaven with the rest of us. The verse about uses "if we confess, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins." Only the sins that are confessed will be forgiven. The belief you profess is just utterly wrong and unaccepting of the reality that sin cuts us off from the grace of God.
Ok, ok. Just because Hitler claimed to be a Christian didn't mean he was. So many people claim they are when they are really not.
True, sin cuts us off from Gods grace. But that is the entire point of Christ dying for us. Ok, if you steal something from your friends, God will not deny you merit in heaven, since sin is sin. There are no different levels of sin. Someone could murder someone and God just sees it as sin, unlike us, who see it worse than stealing. Do you get it?
You asked for verses. Read 1 John 2:1-2.
Amen.
JEhosophat and Mr Whit's End,
Only Christ can forgive sins. No one can pluck them out of His hands. Not even sin. Read John 10:28. It's so clear.

-- Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:06 pm --
Mr. Whit's End wrote:So what if we choose to revert to a sinful lifestyle? Are we still going to heaven?
Oh, and by the way, if you read my quote above you a couple days ago, it said Christ would not let ANYONE pluck His children out of His hands. That means NOTHING. Not stealing, not Satan, not sinful lifestyles.
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jehoshaphat
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John 10:28King James Version (KJV)

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
It says no man shall pluck them out of my hand. No man. This does not remove the possibility of taking yourself out of God's hand by sinning. Because sin is not a person it is a thing. Sin removes you from God's grace. To get God's grace you must repent and confess your sins. And because we all sin we must continue to confess every time we sin to return to God. Actually I do believe there are different levels of sin. (you can read my beliefs on this subject here). Yes Christ died for our sins, but we have to confess then and be repentant for them to be forgiven.
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Wodfamchocsod
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jehoshaphat wrote:
John 10:28King James Version (KJV)

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
It says no man shall pluck them out of my hand. No man. This does not remove the possibility of taking yourself out of God's hand by sinning. Because sin is not a person it is a thing. Sin removes you from God's grace. To get God's grace you must repent and confess your sins. And because we all sin we must continue to confess every time we sin to return to God. Actually I do believe there are different levels of sin. (you can read my beliefs on this subject here). Yes Christ died for our sins, but we have to confess then and be repentant for them to be forgiven.
Actually, it does. Did you see what it said before it? They shall never perish AND no man can pluck them out of Gods hand.
Yes, sin removes you from God's grace. But there's something called the cross, Jehosophat. To get saved you believe in Christ, nothing more, nothing less. Define repent. Read John 3:16 it is very clear.
When we are placed into Christ, we are forgiven for sins past, present, and future. It is nice to ask Gods forgiveness but it is not vital for salvation. Otherwise, we are in so much trouble.
I am so glad that Christ died for our sins. Past, Present, and future.
Sin is sin. There are no levels.
WHEN WE ARE PLACED INTO CHRIST, WE ARE SEEN AS RIGHTEOUS AS HE IS.
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Eleventh Doctor
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We are seen as righteous, so we don't actually become righteous?
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Wodfamchocsod
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:We are seen as righteous, so we don't actually become righteous?
Since God has forgiven our sins past, present, and future, we are seen as righteous, EVEN though we still sin. However, God has forgiven these sins.
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Eleventh Doctor
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So we don't actually become better? We just look better?
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Wodfamchocsod
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:So we don't actually become better? We just look better?
We are placed into Christ, and since we are with Christ, we are as righteous as He is, since we will be with Him forever. We are God's children, even though we still sin.
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SirWhit
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Wodfamchocsod wrote:
jehoshaphat wrote:
John 10:28King James Version (KJV)

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
It says no man shall pluck them out of my hand. No man. This does not remove the possibility of taking yourself out of God's hand by sinning. Because sin is not a person it is a thing. Sin removes you from God's grace. To get God's grace you must repent and confess your sins. And because we all sin we must continue to confess every time we sin to return to God. Actually I do believe there are different levels of sin. (you can read my beliefs on this subject here). Yes Christ died for our sins, but we have to confess then and be repentant for them to be forgiven.
Actually, it does. Did you see what it said before it? They shall never perish AND no man can pluck them out of Gods hand.
Yes, sin removes you from God's grace. But there's something called the cross, Jehosophat. To get saved you believe in Christ, nothing more, nothing less. Define repent. Read John 3:16 it is very clear.
When we are placed into Christ, we are forgiven for sins past, present, and future. It is nice to ask Gods forgiveness but it is not vital for salvation. Otherwise, we are in so much trouble.
I am so glad that Christ died for our sins. Past, Present, and future.
Sin is sin. There are no levels.
WHEN WE ARE PLACED INTO CHRIST, WE ARE SEEN AS RIGHTEOUS AS HE IS.
So does that give us a free pass to sin as much as we want without any divine consequences.
Wodfamchocsod
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No! We will get into heaven but without rewards.
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SirWhit
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OK. Where in the Bible does it say that we'll get into heaven without rewards. Isn't heaven the reward in the first place?
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Hold on, you seem to be contradicting yourself. The murderer who commits sins constantly without repenting will get into heaven, while Hitler doesn't when he also claims to be a Christian? While Hitler's sins were on a larger scale that doesn't make his sins any worse. This seems to completely contradict itself.
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Wodfamchocsod wrote:
Mr. Whit's End wrote:So what if we choose to revert to a sinful lifestyle? Are we still going to heaven?
Yes, you will still go to heaven.
However, we will not be rewarded like others who have chosen the right path. It says in the Bible Christ will wipe every tear from their eye (meaning the people we are talking about).
You are very confused, I do not know what you think the bible says, but it doesn't say that.
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Eleventh Doctor
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Do you maybe want to expand on what you're saying? Maybe say what you think the Bible says?
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GabrielleFandomGirl
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No, I don't believe I can. Heaven is our ultimate reward, and Jesus didn't suffer and die just so we could say "Jesus, please forgive me, amen." And then just go on with life. What was the point if that was all there was to it? Jesus suffered, died, and was mocked, the king of kings, lord of lords, maker of the universe was MOCKED. And he did it so WE. WE. HUMANS. DIRT. (which is what we are in comparison to GOD.) Could have a relationship with him. And live for him, and then be fully rewarded with Heaven and an eternity with him.
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Eleventh Doctor
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Why don't we calm down a bit. You shouldn't vent like that toward others, we need to be kind even in our disagreement. You did a good job of expanding on your original point and sharing what you personally believe. I would however disagree with such a strong emphasis on humans being dirt, after all we are made in the image of God so we shouldn't be so harsh toward His image.
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GabrielleFandomGirl
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:Why don't we calm down a bit. You shouldn't vent like that toward others, we need to be kind even in our disagreement. You did a good job of expanding on your original point and sharing what you personally believe. I would however disagree with such a strong emphasis on humans being dirt, after all we are made in the image of God so we shouldn't be so harsh toward His image.
Well, Mr. Eleventh, in comparison with God, we are dirt. But because God loves, saves, protects, and values us, we are worth more than Gold
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Eleventh Doctor
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In comparison to Christ we are imperfect but imperfect gold is not dirt.
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