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What do you believe and why? Here's the place to discuss anything relating to church and God.
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Eleventh Doctor
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I think you and I have a different definition of impossible then.
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:I think you and I have a different definition of impossible then.
Define impossible for me.
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Eleventh Doctor
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Unable to be done or to happen
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"It's particularly ignorant to assume malicious or ignorant intentions behind an opinion with which one disagrees." ~Connie
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Same here. I think a problem has occurred.
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Eleventh Doctor
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So when the passage says "in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away" You think it means they have not fallen away when it says, they have fallen away?
King of The Lands of Rhetoric, Lord Ruler of the Debate Vampires, and Duke of Quebec

"It's particularly ignorant to assume malicious or ignorant intentions behind an opinion with which one disagrees." ~Connie
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:So when the passage says "in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away" You think it means they have not fallen away when it says, they have fallen away?
No! It's impossible for them to fall away, or be restored
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Eleventh Doctor
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So even though the verse says "they have fallen away" you think it actually means "they cannot have fallen away"?
King of The Lands of Rhetoric, Lord Ruler of the Debate Vampires, and Duke of Quebec

"It's particularly ignorant to assume malicious or ignorant intentions behind an opinion with which one disagrees." ~Connie
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:So even though the verse says "they have fallen away" you think it actually means "they cannot have fallen away"?
No. Read the end of the verse. It means people cannot fall away OR be restored.
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Eleventh Doctor
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Why would it say anything about being restored if falling away wasn't possible?
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"It's particularly ignorant to assume malicious or ignorant intentions behind an opinion with which one disagrees." ~Connie
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:Why would it say anything about being restored if falling away wasn't possible?

If God wanted to.
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jehoshaphat wrote:
John 10:29 King James Version (KJV)

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
It says no man shall pluck them out of my hand. No man. This does not remove the possibility of taking yourself out of God's hand by sinning. Because sin is not a person it is a thing. Sin removes you from God's grace. To get God's grace you must repent and confess your sins. And because we all sin we must continue to confess every time we sin to return to God. Actually I do believe there are different levels of sin. (you can read my beliefs on this subject here). Yes Christ died for our sins, but we have to confess then and be repentant for them to be forgiven.
28 and 29 basically say the same thing, so I say the same thing in reply.


Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

This verse says that those who have fallen away cannot come back. It just gets muddled because of all the modifiers. It basically says that those who have tasted the Holy Spirit and then fallen away cannot come back.
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Eleventh Doctor
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Wodfamchocsod wrote:
Eleventh Doctor wrote:Why would it say anything about being restored if falling away wasn't possible?

If God wanted to.
So it's just mentioning the possibility that God could throw someone out?
King of The Lands of Rhetoric, Lord Ruler of the Debate Vampires, and Duke of Quebec

"It's particularly ignorant to assume malicious or ignorant intentions behind an opinion with which one disagrees." ~Connie
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FlyingRider
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Wodfamchocsod wrote:
Wodfamchocsod wrote:
Mr. Whit's End wrote:Sorry, what? You can't go to heaven if you are in sin. Moses could not see God's full glory even though he was chosen by God, so what makes us think that we can in our sinfulness?
Umm...that's why Christ died for us. We couldn't get to heaven by being perfect, so Christ died on the cross so that He could save us hopeless sinners. When we are placed into Christ, Christ looks at us as righteous as He is.
And Moses was under the Law. Today is different since Christ died for us - we are under grace. Amen!
We shoudlnt not try to be Christ liek just because we will never be perfect. The bible says "1Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.…" I dont believe you can not try to follow God and do your own thing an expect to go to heaven. Like Ok say if someone is going to pay me to clear a field. And i decide after about 15 minutes that its too hard and the rocks and logs are too heavy and sit on my phone all day . Should i really expect someone to pay me if i didnt even try??? If i started but decided in my christian walk that being Christ like ( or striving to) than how do i expect to be rewarded in the end. Its a whole other thing if you start out and you keep going. Though you wont be able to move everything you can work around that rock and ask the master to help you. Also if you decide that its too hard in the beginning and then in the middle of the afternoon you start working diligently then you wont get paid as much ( less rewards in heaven) but you realized you needed to work and decided to follow God. You cant use the verse,"14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14, as your "get out of hell free card". yes you are covered by grace we have all sinned. We sin everyday but you cant use it to justify not following the bible and not doing what God wants us to do. Oh and going back to the field analogy some people may think "Oh i will start following God right before i die so i can party and enjoy life and right before i die i will follow Him" but there are a few flaws with that. 1 they know what they should be doing and are still doing it. 2. They dont know if they are going to die in a car accident immediatly or in a plane crash or a heart attack or whatever. They cant turn to God and tell Him they need a second chance after they are dead. 3. 32"But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 33"Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come....Mark 13:32-33. You dont know when the rapture will come.

It comes down to you dont know when you are checking out of this world. We need to be prepared.
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Definition do sin:
Anything we say, think, or do that breaks Gods law.
We can't constantly "repent" every moment of the day and hope you die or the rapture comes right before you sin.
Now, we should all try to act like Christians, but if I thought for one split second about someone lustfully, and forgot to "repent", I think I'd still go to heaven.
That's why Christ died for us. We need a Saviour.
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Eleventh Doctor
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Is repentance an important thing to do though?
King of The Lands of Rhetoric, Lord Ruler of the Debate Vampires, and Duke of Quebec

"It's particularly ignorant to assume malicious or ignorant intentions behind an opinion with which one disagrees." ~Connie
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:Is repentance an important thing to do though?
Of course. A very good thing 2 do.
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SirWhit
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But what's the point of repenting if we're just going to heaven anyways?
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Mr. Whit's End wrote:But what's the point of repenting if we're just going to heaven anyways?
Telling God you are sorry and making it right with him.
When you were little and stole a cookie from your mom, you probably repented. It makes things right between you, but if you didn't repent, you weren't considered to be an outcast of the family.
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Eleventh Doctor
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Why does it matter if we make it right with God if we'll just end up in Heaven anyway?
King of The Lands of Rhetoric, Lord Ruler of the Debate Vampires, and Duke of Quebec

"It's particularly ignorant to assume malicious or ignorant intentions behind an opinion with which one disagrees." ~Connie
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NateVONgreat
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I don't want to get into this argument/debate, I just wanted to give my opinion. :D
I don't know for sure, but I am pretty sure that it is possible to fall away, I say this because sadly, I know lots of people who fell away or turned from the faith, now I don't know for sure, because I never saw their hearts, I don't know how serious their faith was beforehand.
And also, the Bible mentions having a name erased from the book of life, and in addition, when we are saved, Jesus' blood covers and erases our sins so that we can come before God, and there is no forgiveness to blaspheming the holy spirit, so if you are not forgiven, you cannot come before God, and I guess that is the same as not being saved. But like I said, I am not sure, at the end of the day God is the righteous judge who is the only one to see our hearts and intentions.

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