The Rapture..

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Eleventh Doctor
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So you never talked to anyone about the rapture before reading those verses and deciding that the rapture would occur? Also earlier you suggested I read the Left Behind books, go to a Baptist church, and read about three other books on the end times, why did you do that?

The Old Testament was written to the Jewish people and the New Testament to various churches and individuals in the first century. There was not an agreed upon canon of Scripture until nearly 400, what did Christians do until then?
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:So you never talked to anyone about the rapture before reading those verses and deciding that the rapture would occur? Also earlier you suggested I read the Left Behind books, go to a Baptist church, and read about three other books on the end times, why did you do that?

The Old Testament was written to the Jewish people and the New Testament to various churches and individuals in the first century. There was not an agreed upon canon of Scripture until nearly 400, what did Christians do until then?
I suggested that because sometimes, like I said, can be helpful, but you should also look at the Bible for your main source, and shouldn't sway into your decision that much. You, on the other hand, seem to think that if there is not any other writings besides the Bible that agree with it prove it wrong.
I don't know, what did Christians do? What point are you trying to prove?
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Eleventh Doctor
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I think that the right interpretation of these verses were probably already written about. I am not an expert on Bible scholarship, I don't see why we should trust so much in our own individual interpretation. I mean what if I were to look at the Bible on my own as my main source and decide that the Trinity doesn't exist since that word is never used in the Bible?

I was curious as to what you think they did, if the Bible is our main source what did the early Christians do before there was a Bible?
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*sighs*
It would take a really long explanation to explain the whole history behind the theology of the rapture.
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Eleventh Doctor
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I'm just interested in the early history, when it was first written about.
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:I think that the right interpretation of these verses were probably already written about. I am not an expert on Bible scholarship, I don't see why we should trust so much in our own individual interpretation. I mean what if I were to look at the Bible on my own as my main source and decide that the Trinity doesn't exist since that word is never used in the Bible?

I was curious as to what you think they did, if the Bible is our main source what did the early Christians do before there was a Bible?

I see your point, but the early Christians weren't that dumb. They could see plainly that we will be caught up with God in the clouds with Him. They knew what would happen; they simply didn't use the actual word Rapture.
I think it's kind of sad your only "evidence" against the Rapture is because people didn't write books on it.
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If something doesn't exist how much more evidence do I need? Can you prove to me that unicorns don't exist? And please don't tell me your only evidence is that no scientist or zoologist have ever written about them. Because the Bible clearly says they exist in Deuteronomy 33:17 "His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns." Number 22:32 "God brought them out of Egypt; he hath, as it were, the strength of a unicorn." Job 33:9 "Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?" Job 39:10 "Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band to the furrow? Or will he harrow the valleys behind thee?" And there are others, in fact there's more evidence for unicorns existing than the rapture.
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:If something doesn't exist how much more evidence do I need? Can you prove to me that unicorns don't exist? And please don't tell me your only evidence is that no scientist or zoologist have ever written about them. Because the Bible clearly says they exist in Deuteronomy 33:17 "His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns." Number 22:32 "God brought them out of Egypt; he hath, as it were, the strength of a unicorn." Job 33:9 "Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?" Job 39:10 "Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band to the furrow? Or will he harrow the valleys behind thee?" And there are others, in fact there's more evidence for unicorns existing than the rapture.
You're looking for evidence from books. Books written by man don't disprove the Bible. You're making this out to be a huge deal when it's really not. My evidence is the Bible, and that should be our only evidence.
How did unicorns come into picture?
If something like the rapture was put in the Bible, I think God meant it. Same with unicorns.
I found your post amusing, though.
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Eleventh Doctor
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You're right, books written by man don't disprove the Bible but they do shape our interpretation of the Bible. You cannot read the Bible by yourself, it is literally not possible. You were raised and were told things about the Bible, reading, and the world before you read the Bible for yourself all those thing affect how you interpret the Bible. The books that make up the Bible you read have been translated by hundreds of people over millennium and the exact books that should go in the Bible you read have been debated about almost just as long. Your understanding of the times and context in which the Bible were written were shaped by other books you read. You are interpreting the Bible, your interpretation is not dogma.

I'm not saying I don't believe the Bible, I'm saying I don't agree with your interpretation. There's a huge difference between those two things.

Unicorns came into the picture to prove a point. To prove that point answer this question, are unicorns real animals?
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:You're right, books written by man don't disprove the Bible but they do shape our interpretation of the Bible. You cannot read the Bible by yourself, it is literally not possible. You were raised and were told things about the Bible, reading, and the world before you read the Bible for yourself all those thing affect how you interpret the Bible. The books that make up the Bible you read have been translated by hundreds of people over millennium and the exact books that should go in the Bible you read have been debated about almost just as long. Your understanding of the times and context in which the Bible were written were shaped by other books you read.

I'm not saying I don't believe the Bible, I'm saying I don't agree with your interpretation. There's a huge difference between those two things.

Unicorns came into the picture to prove a point. To prove that point answer this question, are unicorns real animals?
Yes it is literally possible to read the Bible yourself. I have done it. It is Gods Word to us. True, people such as my parents pointed out certain verses to me, though.
If God wanted to created unicorns, I'm not stopping Him. Maybe He did.
Whatever.
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Eleventh Doctor
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So when you read the Bible you consider no outside sources? You did original research whenever a cultural, geographical, or historical reference appeared in the Bible?

As you say your parents pointed out verses, I would also assume that you have Sunday School teachers and pastors who have talked to you about the Bible and theology, did you listen to them?

Okay my whole point was that I thought you'd say unicorns weren't real and I would say that using the Bible as the only source would mean having to say that unicorns are real which is not true since there have been no other records of them existing outside fantasy and myth. Likewise the lack of writings about the rapture, whether using that name or not, is proof enough against the rapture existing. But you've decided to say unicorns are real, I guess you're being consistent?
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:So when you read the Bible you consider no outside sources? You did original research whenever a cultural, geographical, or historical reference appeared in the Bible?

As you say your parents pointed out verses, I would also assume that you have Sunday School teachers and pastors who have talked to you about the Bible and theology, did you listen to them?

Okay my whole point was that I thought you'd say unicorns weren't real and I would say that using the Bible as the only source would mean having to say that unicorns are real which is not true since there have been no other records of them existing outside fantasy and myth. Likewise the lack of writings about the rapture, whether using that name or not, is proof enough against the rapture existing. But you've decided to say unicorns are real, I guess you're being consistent?
Sometimes I have outside sources, but they better line up with what the Bible says. Same with pastors and teachers. I always question them, and shouldn't decide my faith based upon them.
The rapture is in the Bible. Why don't you think the rapture will happen if it's in the Bible?
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Eleventh Doctor
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I agree outside sources should line up with the Bible, I think my outside sources that say the rapture won't happen lineup with the Bible.

I'm not saying it won't happen even though it's in the Bible, I'm saying it's not in the Bible.
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Yes it is in the Bible. Read 1 Thessalonians 4:17
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Eleventh Doctor
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I disagree with your interpretation of that verse.
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:I disagree with your interpretation of that verse.
Well then what do you think it means? What else could it possibly mean?
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That at the Second Coming, which is not the Rapture, we will all go up to Heaven, even those who have died.
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:That at the Second Coming, which is not the Rapture, we will all go up to Heaven, even those who have died.
Ah. I see. Well that's where we disagree.
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Eleventh Doctor
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Good to know where we disagree.
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Eleventh Doctor wrote:Good to know where we disagree.
Yup. I think this discussion is dying.
So...are there any other reasons besides documents?
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