Pound Foolish wrote: I just disagreed with Aaron that, as he seems to say, one should be constantly open to signals from God saying how to pray. God simply isn't that involved with most people. If he is communicating with you that way, you are either amazingly holy... or a huge sinner God is trying to get ahold of.
So, only prophets and incredible sinners are spoken to by God? I completely disagree. God desires to have a one on one connection with every person. It's like that episode of Odyssey where Whit was talking about prayer with the kids. When we pray, who does most of the talking? Us, usually, but that's not how it's supposed to be.
He IS "that involved" with every person, but not all of us choose to be spiritually connected enough with him to notice. I personally have experienced this kind of relationship, and have seen it in hundreds of people throughout my time on this planet.
T.S. (myself) wrote:in worship and prayer, sometimes we have to force ourselves to get up and submit to God's will, not on an immediate basis, but through a longer period of time as a commitment.
I agree with You completely T.S.,
And that's exactly what I mean. The two go together hand in hand, which is why we shouldn't confine ourselves into little comfort zones saying "this is my worship style". That's all I was trying to say.
How can I put this... You're wrong. Utterly. I'm not going to dig through Letters looking for a specific passage, but here's a near-quote:
Let him search for emotional stimulation in prayer. And let him learn to measure the worth of his prayer based on that emotion.
So, one shouldn't always be looking for feelings and cues in prayer unless they REALLY need a message from God. Such things are rare, unless one is a fully grown adult with a developed love of and relationship with the Lord. Stop actively trying to get metaphysical email during prayer, and they'll largely go away. That's because they're mostly made by your brain. I'm being even more blunt than usual here, but facts are facts. TS, what do you think?
"Pound Foolish, I just adoreee arguing with you! Here, have an eyeball."
~Suzy Lou Foolish
As the founder of the E.R.K., may I say: Emily RULES!
I'd have to say that both of you have good points. My personal feelings are, like Aaron Wiley said, that God desires an personal relationship with each and every one of us, and that He will do anything to create or preserve that relationship. What do you mean by 'spoken to'? Are you referring to literal auditory communication, feelings to be interpreted, or 'the still, small voice'? I believe that God mainly operates by the last one. Spoken words are rare, though not unheard of. Mainly, God doesn't give us direct instructions, He wants us to seek His will constantly, and for the rest of our lives. God also operates by feelings. Sometimes I don't hear a specific voice, but an immense impulse towards a certain thing. The last way of communication is, I beleive, the most frequent. I feel a quiet prompting while in my time with Him. Max Lucado sums up our process of seeking God with this analogy (not word for word, but fairly close): "If there were 1000 steps between you and God, He would take all but one toward you. He would do anything to come to you, but He leaves the final decision to you. The final step is yours." God will do anything to communicate with us, but He leaves the final seeking to us. We are to study His word, and spend time in prayer to discover His will, He rarely hands the plans for the rest of our lives to us. He does communicate with me, sometimes frequently, other times I struggle to get His will. It is not a special event that only holy people or wretched sinners receive.
However, I also feel that we cannot be constantly expecting immediate feedback and answers to prayer from Him. We have to seek them, and strive for them. Also, it can be quite easy to mistake our own will for God's. Because the devil cannot block God out, he seeks to twist His direction as much as possible. If we are not seeking God's will by studying Scriptures, then it is simple to replace His voice with our own, and never know the difference. In other words, i believe that God already communicates His will for us, in the Bible. It is by this book that He expects us to live our lives. We cannot sit back and allow other thinking to creep in and replace God's, especially by imagining we can determine His will or by imagining we hear it when we do not. But, we also have an opportunity for a clear relationship with God, and He will speak to us through the Holy Spirit. It is a balance between the two that is needed: firm grounding in the Bible, and listening for the Holy Spirit. Both are needed, but we must be careful not to replace His speech with our own ideas.
I hope this wasn't too monotonous for you, and I hope that this post helps explain my position, which is probably a balance between the two of you.
Pound Foolish wrote:Stop actively trying to get metaphysical email during prayer, and they'll largely go away. That's because they're mostly made by your brain. I'm being even more blunt than usual here, but facts are facts.
What facts are you talking about? All I've heard is ideas out of your own mind. Not that I think you're "lying", but You having given me any data to backup what you're saying. The funny thing is, I feel like the only parts of my post that you disagreed with, were parts that I misworded in a way that made it sound I meant that God will speak audibly to every person.
The word "spoken to" has come to mean something different among the communities I frequent. I wasn't trying to say that everyone is going to reach that point where they can just speak to God and have a conversation with him like Moses or Elijah did (although that would be ideal), I just meant that God speaks (more times than not) an that "still small voice. Yes, this can be confused with the twisted lies of the Devil, but God does (and I believe quite frequently) impress things on his children's hearts. We shouldn't always just take these at face value unless we're seriously confident that it was definitely a word from God; We need to take these messages, just like the words that are often spoken in church gatherings as "prophecy", with a glass of water, and make sure that we ground our ultimate source of truth in the Bible. The part that makes me sad is that there are so many times that we just let these impressions pass by because they stretch our comfort zones.
The main points I've been trying to make throughout this entire topic is basically this (and hopefully I can get it right this time) When in worship and prayer, we should never confine our spirituality in a comfort zone, or little set rule of how we worship. We should be open to anything that the Spirit may lead us to do, even if it makes us feel uncomfortable.
I'm glad you agree with T.S. though, because after reading what he wrote, I feel like it was just a more finished version of what I wanted to say... haha. Well done T.S.. May I add another "Amen"?
