CEMS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 12:31 am
Jay's relationship with his parents.
I don't recall the very first episode where we hear Jay's remarks about his parents' careers - I want to say it was in "Ties that Bind", but I could be wrong. I know he definitely does in "There and Back Again". Some commentators seemed to question it, I suppose on the grounds that Jay is not known for being honest and because they are prestigious lines of work that are known to be correlated with a high degree of intelligence. However, I was more inclined to take it at face value, because of the context. Jay was not bragging; on the contrary, he didn't seem to be too happy about it. He came off as begrudgingly admitting something that he would prefer not to be true, which suggested to me that it likely was. At any rate, it's been confirmed that his parents really do have the careers that he specified (even if his mother has apparently been unavailable for the last couple of times a brain surgery was needed near Odyssey).
The assumption we'd naturally make early on would be that both of his parents were very busy with their careers and preferred to delegate him out to the school system and his uncle (soon to be discussed). This even seemed to be backed up by Jay's claim, in "Ties that Bind", to the effect that they didn't care much what he watched so long as he wasn't underfoot. He is afraid of his father's discipline (the somewhat dramatic statement in "30 Jays" that he's 'doomed'). But Nick Smouse actually showing up has seemed to throw something of a wrench in all this. He knows Jay's favourite sandwich type, is concerned with Jay's media usage, has talked about Jay going to science camp (which he is sure that he would excel in) not just once but many times, is firm but fair and shows grace and mercy, and overall seems to be a pretty good father. While we've still never heard from Jay's mother, she is known to be around on some level too, being referred to fairly regularly by other characters, including her brother Wally. She is also mentioned several times in pseudocanonical Clubhouse magazine stories. Emily tells the victim of a messy prank Jay pulled that if she went and talked to Mrs. Smouse, she could get a new shirt paid for with Jay's allowance. This suggests that Emily was acquainted with Mrs. Smouse on some level, knew when she would be available, and what her response would be when she heard about the predicament. In a Thanksgiving story, the "Smouses" are mentioned as attending a community event and bringing some food.
One thing that we can reasonably ascertain is that Jay perceives his parents' professions to be intimidating. Although Jay doesn't mind thinking of himself as intelligent, he doesn't want the expectations that come with it; he doesn't think that he is intelligent
like that, and he hasn't yet fully processed the ideas that his father presents, that he doesn't have to be.
He is strongly motivated to not disappoint his parents. One way of doing that is to be successful in something. But another way is to be continually unsuccessful, and keep their expectations very low. More on that soon.
CEMS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 12:31 am
His relationship with Wally (Wally's awesome).
Wally was something of a guardian figure during the first period of Jay's time on the show. While we learned that his parents were in town, for some reason they never seemed to be around, so he needed someone to mind him in the meantime.
Although Wally is smart (probably a Haggler trait, since his other known siblings, Jay's mother and Archie, are also smart), it's a more down-to-earth type of intelligence, involving wit, cunning, street smarts, a dash of marketing prowess, and the ability to recognize value in miscellaneous objects and put them to practical use. Wally is also a pretty good actor, and has a sense of whimsy and humour. I expect Jay finds it a lot easier to relate to his uncle than to his parents, and there's a good reason for that: the prior list of skills and personality traits describes Jay nearly as well as it does Wally. Jay might not be able to imagine a life as a brilliant scientist or medical doctor, but I bet he can see himself becoming like his uncle.
We don't know much about what Wally expects of Jay, but it probably is something relatively simple, like, "do the things you're told to do, and don't do anything really stupid", which is a lot easier to live up to. Wally seems to be pretty easy-going from what we can tell, so Jay can probably take the scolding he gets in case he fails to live up even to these expectations.
Sadly, although we might hear more
about Wally Haggler, or see further appearances in the comics or Clubhouse magazine, we will likely never hear him on air again. Jim Ward, his voice actor, passed away earlier this month. He appeared in 13 episodes, playing Mr. Haggler, and other more minor characters. It doesn't feel like nearly enough.
CEMS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 12:31 am
Why he feels the need to have everyone see him as a bully, or rebellious.
This is the biggest mystery in his character. After almost 15 years (in our time, not AIO time) and many episodes, we still don't know as much as we'd like. But although he has a hard time saying it out loud (and sometimes says things to the contrary), he gives away enough that we can guess.
In "30 Jays Hath September":
"Doing the Bible thing may be easy for you, Mr. Whittaker, but as for me, you know... I'm not... (sigh) ...never mind."
This is a revealing moment for a character who is seldom at a loss for words.
In his own personal conversation a little later, he has "Elvis" say: "It's hard to live up to an image."
As best as we can tell, Jay doesn't think that he can live up to what would be required of him if he were to be a 'good guy'. Although he admits to himself that he's not happy with his life and that he usually feels 'mediocre', I imagine it feels safe. If you don't try, after all, you can't fail. It seems easier to get along by keeping everyone's expectations low. Moreover, this strategy does work on some level, sometimes (it kept Vance off his back in "Mistaken for Good").
In "Walk Worthy", Buddy is flabbergasted about his stealing magazines from the comic book store, given he 'recites the oath every week', and that Jay got an award for good character and that people think he is changing. Jay replies:
"This week's meeting's over, kid. All that Trail Life stuff is okay once a week - makes the folks happy, dad says it looks good on college applications (not that I plan on going) - but, when the meeting's over and I take off the uniform, I've got to be me. It's not like you follow the oath all the time... Don't get hung up on it! They're just a bunch of words to make kids feel good about themselves. Would it be nice if we all followed the oath? Maybe. Do we? Nah."
But if you listen carefully earlier in the episode, there's something interesting. The single time we hear him, Jay actually does *not* recite the Trail Life oath, but only a butchered version of it. Is this a sign of poor character, that he is making fun of something that should be taken seriously? Maybe. But perhaps there's another explanation - maybe he does take it seriously, and so refuses to say it.
Somewhere deep down Jay recognizes and is deeply frustrated with the dilemma Paul describes in Romans 7. He would like to do good, but expects to fail. He doesn't want to be disappointed, or to be more of a disappointment, than he feels he already is, so it's just easier to occasionally do right if it can be managed, and do 'whatever' the rest of the time - which he recognizes is wrong, and usually comes back to bite him, but is at least fun in the short term.
CEMS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 12:31 am
His relationship with Zoe friendship wise. (I'm anti Joey and will take this to my grave)
I talked about this at some length in the other thread, and I don't want to rehash the points I made there.
Besides having a genuine crush, he probably admires her on another level. A crush is hard to break when the person you are crushing on really has the positive traits you think they do. While Zoe isn't actually perfect, she does seem to be pretty special. She is fairly close to his age (though younger), and she is apparently doing and succeeding in the areas where he doesn't think he could if he tried. Maybe his reasoning is that if he can't be good himself, he might at least spend time with somebody who is.
That's not entirely misguided. He just has yet to learn that any goodness we have comes from God; it isn't innate. In fairness, though, most of us struggle with the same problem.
CEMS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 12:31 am
His friendships in general. What happened to Riley and Brian?
It's true we don't hear much about how those kids turned out. It would have been nice to, but I wouldn't draw any conclusions from it. Perhaps they quit hanging out, but perhaps nothing happened and a story with these other kids just hasn't come up.
Jay has, from just about his earliest appearances, always spent time with the main 'protagonist' kids, which sets him apart from really villainous minor characters like Rodney Rathbone. In "Alibis", he is close enough to the high school group (Cooper, Jules, Ryan, and Bridget) that they would all rather believe a rat somehow stole the money than suspect he committed the theft.
He used to spend a lot of time with Buddy, and if Buddy shows up, Jay is often somewhere around. Although Buddy hasn't appeared in a little while now, given the slower timescale the show is on these days, one year's absence isn't enough to conclude that Buddy is an inactive character (or that they don't hang out at all).
CEMS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 12:31 am
Jay's time in New Zealand. I mean, his cousin, who he was staying with, was in a cult and locked him out of the house at night, why does no one talk about this?
I expect people thought that it was resolved once the episode ended and he came back to Odyssey. And in fairness, there's not much information to contradict that.
His cousin was a pretty confused girl, enough that she was kept hospitalized by medical professionals. He did say that the 'locking out' was part of a (misguided) form of discipline, 'negative reinforcement'. Still, at least her expectations in that case are clear, and when she is a little more lucid, she seems to be personally warm and affectionate.
In the first run-in with Ethan, Jay says in the open that he 'hangs out' with the group there and that they have 'good snacks'. But he privately describes Ethan as 'bad news', and notes that Joelle has changed and that she used to have a great relationship with her father.
In this respect, Jay's prior life experience - with Vance - may have helped him here. He knows how to survive in proximity to people who are dangerous, at least for a while: if they don't expect he's anything more than a clueless cute mascot kid, he can slip under the radar and buy time. But he has probably caught on to the fact that they always eventually end up taking you further than you want to go.
CEMS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 12:31 am
Do you think that Jay did anything besides what happened in There and Back Again after he was cut from the TV series?
If it's not mentioned, all we can do is speculate. It's plausible, but he had a pretty busy schedule as it was, so it may not be necessary.
CEMS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 12:31 am
Does he actually like photography? I know at first he was just trying to impress Zoe, but the camera keeps coming back in episodes without her.
It seems to be more videography or cinematography, but yes, he seems fond of camera work.
CEMS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 12:31 am
What are things you imagine about Jay that the episodes don't say?
I admit I'm not very imaginative in this respect. The main thing I'd say is that I am inclined to accept Clubhouse portrayals as if they were canon, unless there is a good reason not to (such as if it contradicts the actual show in a way that can't be reconciled, or is over-the-top silly).
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