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Oh my gosh. You have to listen to this show. Please.

It. Is. So. Stupid.

It's hilarious. So, around the time of the split episodes, when aio wasn't as popular, this other radio drama decided to take a shot at being the new aio and it's actually still around.

As an Odyssian, you'll spot the similarities right away. These people aren't even subtle.

If the theme sounds familiar, that's because it's nearly the same as aio. It's basically just different instrumentation. Plus, it starts with that theme introducing the show, interspersed with scenes from the upcoming episode like aio sometimes did around then. Then the theme stops, followed by only one calming instrument as the episode transitions to kids talking as school starts. Part of why the music is similar is because they actually got John Campbell! And if some of the actors sound the same, some of them are the same! Play by play, it feels like aio. It centers on kids but with recurring adult characters. The adults give wise advice. Then it ends with the host summing up the moral and ending with Bible verse. It even has classic aio lines. Such as, "X has been acting weird." "You know x, they once did x crazy thing. Ha ha!"

But it's not just that it's so similar. It's trying to be aio but it just isn't. It is so incompetent, so pale by comparison. Let's use Stars and Gripes for an example. (The first of two episodes I've heard.) The premise: how dare those rotten public schools not teach religion in school! Haley is studying this old textbook in school and sees it teaches God in it. Then she immediately comes to the conclusion that they should still be doing this. Everyone knows if someone used to do something once, they should keep doing it. She gets mad and keeps obsessing over it the rest of the episode and that's really all it is. She's mad because they used to do it and now they don't. Absolutely no appreciation for why they stopped doing it in the first place. Namely, a state religion is a terrible idea. But wait, it gets better.

There's this character named Shannon- Oh sorry, I mean Tiffany. Tiffany is a bit of a brat (a poorly written brat who acts like no bully does.) Is she a non-Christian? You bet! Is she the only regularly recurring non-Christian kid in sight? You bet! There's a girl named Maya who's Christian, but used to be a bit bratty. Did she used to be non-Christian? You bet! Is she all sugar and butterflies now she's Christian? My friends, she is. She is. But wait, it gets better.

Again, this is a "Put religion back in schools, it's government's job!" episode. So I was praying they'd pull the money line. Do they? You bet! Which leads us to another thing. Are the kids' dialogue unnaturally written? You bet. The kid, Justin I think, delivers the money line like this: "In God we trust. It still says that. On Nation's currency." Yep, he totally says that and Tiffany, who hears, totally gets mad. This is news to her! She had no idea "In God we trust" is on our money! She's mad! I was mentally pleading with her to storm out and she obliged! My gosh, she really did it, ha ha ha. Thank you, Tiffany. But wait, it gets better.

Haley is an alien from outer space. She keeps getting madder to the point she's so mad at the government she takes down the family flag and shoves it in a closet. I am not making this up. Mr and Mrs. Barclay- I'm sorry, Mr. and Mrs. Morrison- come in to talk to her. So then I think, maybe I've been to harsh. Maybe this is a good show and they'll call her and her actions.

Nope.

Oh, they tell that she shouldn't' have done that to the flag but they don't contradict her about religion in school! Does he refuse to consider the opposing side? You bet he does. Plus, the dad tells her the government entirely reflects the will of the people and if something bad happens it's because the people wanted it. So the man knows nothing about government. Plus the mom casually mentions porn though it barely connects to the conversation. Who does that? It's probably because this show is trying so desperately to be deep and handle more adult stuff and it isn't smart enough. At all. AIO goes deeper talking about actual truths than this show does trying to handle deep stuff and just being a laugh fest.

I urge, I implore, I beseech you guys to check this show out. It is hilariously bad. http://www.keysforkids.org/For-Kids/Dow ... ead-ListenAnd if anyone out there has fond memories of it or likes it, I won't laugh or anything, I'd be genuinely interested why. Thanks, feel free to talk it up!

Well, only listening to two episodes isn't very useful at arriving at a proper review of a show. >___> BUTTT... anyway. I have heard all of DGL by now... It used to play right after AIO on the radio, so of course I know what it is. xD

To start off, DGL is not nearly as good as AIO. DGL doesn't nearly have as good writers, production... or actors, to be honest. However, DGL has it's good points: It tackles much more difficult topics than AIO ever would have dreamed of, it gets veeerrry dark at moments, the one writer seemed to have the first 6 seasons all planned out, and there is a good mystery and continuity between them all, and it's nice growing up with one family and not have actors have to be changed due to voice changes. Seasons 7 to the end are much more confusing... and honestly disappointing in many ways. =/ I could go on in goods/bad, but I'll stop with this.

About it being way too similar to AIO, I believe John Cambell wrote the them for DGL, so that would explain the similarities. I have recognized very similar soundtracks between the two, also. Also... their both, umm, radio shows, so similarities between how it's introduced, etc., are going to be expected. Many TV shows have a one minute theme song each episode... they must be ripping off each other!

And you are correct, "Stars and Gripes" is honestly not really the best episode. >___> Many episodes (say... the first season ) I wouldn't need to listen to again. I prefer Seasons 3-6, which I would say are the peak of DGL. So yes, DGL is not very great, but compared to, say, Jonathan Park, it's amazing.

Oooohhh, I remember this one. Used to hear it on Saturday mornings; if I switched Christian stations at the right time I could hear this one and then AIO after it. So I have heard more than a few episodes.

As for this episode, what you state lines up with what I remember. I was smaller then, so it didn't leave the same impression on me that it appears to have left on you (not withstanding the fact that the dad was more or less right). There was a later episode on pornography that I actually liked quite a bit.

If you found this episode to be distasteful, you probably will not enjoy the later episodes. The drama tends to be overplayed (though the story itself isn't bad), and the characters themselves can get rather worked up over stuff compared to AIO. They thankfully avoid international plotlines and situations, so it may feel a bit bland compared Novacom or the Green Ring Conspiracy.

I've come to expect AIO to be unique, both in quality and content. If you don't come in expecting another AIO, I think you can learn to enjoy Down Gilead Lane for what it is.


Everyone (Blitz doesn't count) fears ninjas, except for one: I, Ninjahunter

Isaiah the Ox wrote:Well, only listening to two episodes isn't very useful at arriving at a proper review of a show. >___>

That is true, but I just couldn't hold it in. Plus, for what its' worth, three episodes now. The next is on modesty and fashion. I. Can't. Wait. It must be Christmas. If you can't tell, this show has truly loyal listener in me.

Isaiah the Ox wrote:However, DGL has it's good points: It tackles much more difficult topics than AIO ever would have dreamed of

That isn't inherently a good thing though. Aio does a wonderful job choosing morals that aren't the "tough" issues but are essential. It's a very profound show. (Also, so far as tough issues go, it just did an entire album on the cultural undermining of marriage.) This show though, seems to insist on tackling tough issues and awful situations pretty regularly rather than focusing on easier issues and earning the tougher ones. DGL seems to handle the tough issues very clumsily and that does more harm than good. It's just not smart enough.

Isaiah the Ox wrote:the one writer seemed to have the first 6 seasons all planned out, and there is a good mystery and continuity between them all

Mmmkay, I'll take your word for it. Though I'm shocked this show is capable of a good mystery.

Isaiah the Ox wrote:About it being way too similar to AIO, I believe John Cambell wrote the them for DGL, so that would explain the similarities

I mentioned that in my mammoth post. How do you not remember every syllable.

Isaiah the Ox wrote:And you are correct, "Stars and Gripes" is honestly not really the best episode.

Nor the two since evidently. In the last one, I learned Tiffany's also non-Christian parents are such jerks these adults actually go to extreme lengths to ruin a child's newspaper work. WHAT? Hey. Pssst. Writers. Christianity is about love and kindness. It's not about bitterness and shaming others. ...morons

Isaiah the Ox wrote:I prefer Seasons 3-6, which I would say are the peak of DGL.

Okay. Perhaps you're right, we'll see. Frankly though, a good show that lasted 12 seasons should have more than two or three good albums.

NinjaHunter wrote:not withstanding the fact that the dad was more or less right)

Are you referring to what he said about how God should be in public school? Ah, nope. He was very extremely wrong. (If you disagree I'd be delighted to meet you in the debate hall!) As for what he said about government, sorry if I sound condescending, but have you taken a government or a political science class? What was the textbook, then? The government most certainly can influence the people rather than the other way around, witness Roe. vs. Wade. So the people aren't necessarily responsible for the views of the government. Secondly, many groups don't get politically involved, vote, or run for office. So the government just doesn't necessarily reflect the overall population.

NinjaHunter wrote:There was a later episode on pornography that I actually liked quite a bit.

Goody goody gumdrops!

NinjaHunter wrote:though the story itself isn't bad

I beg to differ.

NinjaHunter wrote:They thankfully avoid international plotlines and situations, so it may feel a bit bland compared Novacom or the Green Ring Conspiracy.

I'm fond of quieter, simpler stories. I'm also, though, a fan of competent ones.

Pound Foolish wrote:Are you referring to what he said about how God should be in public school? Ah, nope. He was very extremely wrong. (If you disagree I'd be delighted to meet you in the debate hall!)

I don't exactly recall what he said. All I recollect is not overtly disagreeing with what he said (and thinking it was a bit overplayed).
Short answer, though, is that I would prefer theism over secularism if the schools have to teach one or the other (and I'm not convinced that they can't not teach one). Religious classes should be available if someone wants to fund them as long as they are not compulsory.

Pound Foolish wrote:The government most certainly can influence the people rather than the other way around, witness Roe. vs. Wade. So the people aren't necessarily responsible for the views of the government.

I do not see Roe vs Wade as having a major influence so much as intensifying the battle and changing the battle grounds. Besides, we vote in our leaders. We are ultimately responsible for the government and laws we get.

Pound Foolish wrote:Secondly, many groups don't get politically involved, vote, or run for office. So the government just doesn't necessarily reflect the overall population.

True, our system is more like "equal representation of everyone who bothers to vote". All I'll say is that those who choose not to vote are only shafting themselves. If they will not utilize the responsiblity God has given them they have no right to complain if the government throws them in a gulag. If they do not vote and they do not take up arms they have voluntarily given up any say in how they are governed.

Pound Foolish wrote:The next is on modesty and fashion. I. Can't. Wait. It must be Christmas. If you can't tell, this show has truly loyal listener in me.

Pound Foolish. I beg of you. Please listen and review that episode. I don't think I could listen without writing a getting angry, and in typical Audrey fashion, writing a scathing, harsh review and end up astounding people with my radical liberal ideas on how women should dress.

Also, I find this whole thread hilariously awesome. I've heard of DGL but only from loyal fans who sang its praises and told me I should listen because it's as good, if not better, than AIO. Ah, ripoffs. I'm an elitist, what can I say? AIO forever! (I say even though i haven't listened to an AIO episode in two years)

*begin rant here* I don't know, maybe it is the whole "it's not for your age" thing. But from what you're saying (or how I'm interpreting it) it sounds like these characters are much more extreme than AIO in their typecasts (Though AIO sure does have its flaws). I still think that teaching young kids stereotypes about good Christians, bad Christians, and non Christians is really harmful, especially when kids haven't really interacted with those kinds of people yet. It makes everything seem black and white when it really isn't. You can't just make every character in a show who used to be a rebellious bad person turned Christian super sweet and perfect instantly. Not only is it bad writing, it's unrealistic; you'll make kids think that turning someone Christian is going to solve everything. (That's what I like about the Odyssey book where Jimmy Barclay becomes a Christian. Gosh those were good books, in my humble opinion, though I haven't read them in a while). And when you typecast non-Christians as judgmental, rude, atheistic people who don't care about Christians...UGH. It infuriates me. okay, /rant.

As I have been begged...

So, Jennifer on the ToO, a fan of DGL, warned me this is the absolute worst episode.
Here are my notes as I listen.
-This show absolutely refuses to shy away from difficult issues. I know that because the producer shows up at the beginning to say so.
-So, the opening montage features somebody saying, “This is the best issue of Teen Zone yet” cutting to someone saying, “These things shouldn’t even be published.” Oh boy. I am in for it.
Also, seriously, how can people say this show, even if it isn’t trying to be exactly the same as aio, isn’t trying to cash in on its popularity? Even though I’m a fan of radio shows this is the only one I know of that opens with a clip montage besides aio. It’s exactly the same sort of montage too, some dramatic lines but spliced together in such a way they’re a bit silly but you know they’re dramatic in context, with a few jokes too.

-“The one you picked would look good on me.” “Don’t you dare Haley.” “Okay, okay. I don’t wanna be twins on the beach either.” Okay, decent humor. Not laugh out loud but actually not painful.
- So Donna is talking about how all the hottest fashions are out right now- Oh sorry, I mean Haley is talking. She wants a new swimsuit.
-Okay, Haley asks for a new swimsuit and her Mom makes her recite that verse about how the Lord looks at the heart. Really? WOW. I wonder how Mrs. Morrison reacts when Haley goes full-Donna and asks for a new coat.
- Mrs. Morrison, talking to Brooke: “And the sad thing is people in my generation and a little older were fighting to be as free as they thought men were. Fighting were equality. And look what it started.” Women fought tooth and nail for equal employment opportunity, equal wages for the same work, and yes, for more reasonable and flexible expectations about dress. Granted, if that never happened, ads using God’s most amazing creation to sell beer might not have either. And even better, if we had never invented paper there wouldn’t be ads at all. Some things are just necessary even if they have consequences.
– Brooke needs feedback on a paper she’s doing so she asks her Mom, Mrs. Morrison, for advice
– Mrs. Morrison: “It was the sixties and seventies. Women’s issues were all the rage. *sigh*” Ah yes, snub the sixties. The sixties were a bad time for legal change, that’s for sure.
– “There are plenty of places to give you information statistics to defend that position.”
– Brooke (one of the many Morrisions): “Because if things like these advertisings are the end result, then I sure don’t feel anymore liberated.” Okay, well, at least these kids have their own lives and opinions.
– Mrs. Morrison: “How are we going to fight against this world when this stuff is brought right into our home.” People talk so differently in this show. It’s so unnaturally Christian-y in an uppity way. Oh, that darn rest of the world. Stay out of our house.
– “If you think it was fine to have this, then why did you go to the trouble of having it under a book?” Yes, a lot of trouble. Funny, I always thought stacking books and magazines was normal.
– So, the boys and Haley are found out. Talk time. Let the unnatural dialogue commence with Haley, Brooke, and Mrs. Morrison first.
– Brooke: “Teen zone and stuff like that makes you focus on all the wrong things. You start totally focused on what you look like, what your body should be like.” Yeah, those things aren’t worth attention. Also, yeah, everyone knows people who read those magazines are shallow and “totally focused” on their looks. You’ve noticed that, right?
– Mrs. Morrison: “The world’s trying to sell the idea that you need to look just right.” Again with the world. Bad, bad world. Stay out, don’t ruin our Christian life.
– Haley: “And Teen Zone is just a way of starting young?” Yeesh.
– “…and don’t buy into what the world tells us.” Alright! I get it! Shame on the world. The world sucks. I’ll leave for Mars tomorrow, I promise. Just drop it!
– “But are we free and independent Mom? Like, everyone wants girls to be today?” Learn to write, writer.
– So now we move on from the cr*ppy talk with the girls to the cr*ppy talk with the two boys and Dad, Mr. Morrison.

– On looking at the magazine: “I felt sick.” “My stomach felt all turned around.” “It was a strange, dark thrill, wasn’t t?” Um. Okay, why is this episode suddenly saying looking at this stuff is no fun? At least be honest. They were enjoying it very much earlier. Stick to your guns, episode. Yes it’s sinful, obviously, but you don’t have to pretend it makes you feel sick.
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Some things here actually were pretty good. The comedy relief got a smile from me. Henry, one of the Morrison kids, and Haley have decent actors. The parents do their best with what they're given. The episode juggles a lot of characters and I never had any trouble following who’s who.

All that notwithstanding, I understand why even a fan would consider this the worst. Its message about magazines is at best exaggerated. Being too obsessive about how you look is bad, yes. But magazines are just guides on how to do it; it’s up to you how much you use it. If you took ALL or maybe even most of the advice from any magazine it could get excessive. That’s the point of a magazine, to have a lot of advice on something so you can pick what you like. Also, if you’re standards of being too obsessive about how you look include wanting a new swimsuit, the magazines you question may not be so evil after all.

The biggest problem though is the premise of all this. If you put scantily clad women in an episode, aren’t you asking listeners to visualize them, as you do everything in a radio drama? And is that such a good thing? This show really feels it’s doing Christians a service by treading where most Christian family media does not. Instead, it’s just bumbling into the snares smarter shows avoid.

Grade: F+

Alright, I don't think this show is the greatest ever either, but I don't think the review of "Stars and Gripes" is a very fair representation of what happened. Let's take a look at the script:

Stars and Gripes wrote:Mary: Haley, why did you do that? And then stuff it in the broom closet! You know we don't treat the American flag like that.

Haley: I just don't know if America is all it's cracked up to be.

John: Well, that's quite a statement.

Mary: You've been talking like this the past couple of days. Now, what is going on?

Haley: We were studying America's schools in the 1800s during history, and when I saw how they used to teach about God so much, it just made me mad!

John: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa—what made you mad?

Haley: That our "modern" government says that we can't even talk about it anymore!

Mary: And that's made you dislike America?

Haley: Yeah! I mean, everything got so messed up once they took God out of schools, and I think that's why the whole world's so messed up!

Mary: Haley, it's true that our nation needs God to heal it, but do you really think that we can blame our government for everything?

Haley: I don't know…yeah?

John: Alright, Haley—tell me something. Who makes up the government?

Haley: People.

John: Right. People who live in what country?

Haley: Our country, America.

John: Right, mm-hmm. And in the end, government reflects the attitudes of the people of that nation, right? Government doesn't have the power to make a wicked nation into a good one.

Haley: What do you mean?

Mary: Dad's saying that it's the people of our country that make the difference. They make up the government and are represented by the government. You're not upset with America—

Haley: I'm not?

Mary: No. You're upset with the way Americans live.

John: And the important thing that you have to remember, Haley, before you get so high and mighty about being a Christian, is that there are millions of Christians in this country.

Haley: And…?

John: And the attitude of Christians is just as represented in our government, and we're still in many ways a morally corrupt nation. And you can't blame non-Christians for behaving like non-Christians, but you can certainly fault Christians when they behave like non-Christians.

Haley: You mean, when we say we're Christians but we act just like everyone else in the world?

Mary: Right. Hey, guess who's getting divorces, using pornography, watching questionable TV, abusing drugs and alcohol? I wish it were only non-Christians, but it isn't.

John: The decisions you and I make, even in our own homes, ultimately affects the moral fabric of America.

Haley: But wouldn't things be better, at least, if we could just still get to pray in school?

Mary: We'd love it if schools still opened in prayer, Haley, but there's more to it than that. John, tell her about that Senator you heard talking to the group of people who wanted prayer—

John: Who wanted prayer back in public school?

Mary: Right.

John: Yeah, that's right. Ah, this group, like you, Haley, really thought that that would solve most of our nation's problems. So they called a meeting with their Senator to tell him their thoughts. The Senator asked the room full of angry parents, "How many of you really want prayer back in public schools?" They all raised their hands with clenched fists. Then he said, "I have one more question: How many of you, within the privacy of your own homes, prayed with your own children within the last 24 hours?" There was a gasp in the room, and only about three hands went up.

Haley: Whoa.

John: Yeah. The Senator said, "Why should you expect your government to do what you aren't even doing on your own?"

Haley: I bet they felt pretty dumb, huh?

Mary: Well, they realized they couldn't keep pointing the finger—that they could take some responsibility.

John: Right. As the Bible says, Haley, "Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people." Do you know what verse I have up in my office, Haley?

Haley: Nuh-uh.

John: 2 Chronicles chapter 7, verse 14: "If my people which are called by my name shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land."

Haley: So…we need to do something about it, huh? I mean, we can't just ignore it and take down the flag and hope all the bad stuff goes away.

Mary: Non-involvement is an active thing, honey. When you choose to do nothing, you're actually taking action against your country.

John: Yeah, we need to pray for our nation and seek its peace and prosperity by being the best citizens we can be. By loving God, our families, and our neighbors, and by obeying the law, and by encouraging our fellow citizens, especially our fellow Christians, to do the same. Make sense?

Haley: Makes sense.

(Bolded what I consider relevant.)

Pound Foolish wrote:they don't contradict her about religion in school!

That's not really an accurate summation. What they said was that while they'd "love it if schools still opened in prayer" (which is a perfectly reasonable thing for conservative Christians to personally want, and I don't fault them for it), the issue runs deeper than simply whether or not Christianity is taught in schools, and simply making schools teach it won't make everything better when the culture itself is immoral and depraved. I mean, abstinence-only sex education is taught in public schools all over the Southeast, and guess which region has some of the highest rates of unplanned pregnancies?

Pound Foolish wrote:Does he refuse to consider the opposing side? You bet he does.

The character does not consider the opposing side, that the church and the state should be separated, and I agree that it is a failing of the episode (a pitfall that AIO has also fallen into, as well as pulling the Christian-victim card—"The Living Nativity", anyone?). But it's not really a "refusal" so much as the episode presupposes that religion should be kept in public schools, so there's no argument to be made in that specific instance to begin with. I mean, separation of church and state only became an acceptable thing for Christians to support relatively recently, so it's disappointing, but not surprising, that DGL would further this belief.

Pound Foolish wrote:Plus, the dad tells her the government entirely reflects the will of the people and if something bad happens it's because the people wanted it. So the man knows nothing about government.

No one said that it's "because the people wanted it" that the nation is morally corrupt. What they're saying is that government makes laws that reflect the cultural and political movements around them. Government doesn't always reflect the will of the people, but that's not the point of what they're saying. They're saying that the government cannot be held solely responsible for the choices that are made by individual people, that there are plenty of people who claim to be Christians who are behaving in ways that are just as reprehensible as the unbelievers around them, and that if people aren't willing to make changes in their own personal lives, they shouldn't expect government to do the legwork for them.

You mentioned Roe v. Wade not reflecting the will of the people, and it's true that that case has been a controversy ever since the opinion was written. But it wasn't a fringe opinion at the time, either. That case was argued at the height of second-wave feminism and the Sexual Revolution, just as cases like Brown v. Board were argued when racial tensions were beginning to mount, and a lot of the cases involving the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment were decided during the mid-to-late 20th century, when secularism was on the rise and more people started to actively question what it meant to keep the church and the state separate. I mean, it's not like our Supreme Court justices are automatons. They are people with their own opinions and political leanings just like the rest of us, and for a 7-2 majority of the Court at the time, support for the women's lib movement was more appealing. It may have been a contested ruling, but that doesn't mean that it was made against the will of the majority.

The episode is making the argument that we can neither expect government to magically fix all our problems and cater to us, nor blame it for all our problems—instead, if we want to change our culture and therefore our government as a whole, we have to actually get out and be involved in our communities and make a difference. It's an argument that I believe is Scripturally based, and it's definitely one that I agree with.

Pound Foolish wrote:Plus the mom casually mentions porn though it barely connects to the conversation. Who does that?

I mean, I can see the argument that it was a bit extreme, but like…what she was saying had everything to do with the conversation. People who claim to be Christians do use porn, abuse drugs and alcohol, and contribute to the divorce rate, so just slapping Christian window dressing on everything clearly isn't going to somehow miraculously make things better. There has to be real heart change and true cultural revival.

I think that making the point more on-the-nose in the manner that I am about to discuss would have been a bit too much, but I think that a subtle aspect of the episode is that none of the characters advocate for engaging in culture wars. Justin and Lauren, confronted with Tiffany's opposition (and yes, I agree, she could be a bit cartoonishly evil), pray for her rather than treating her as an enemy to be taken down. John and Mary don't tell Haley to attack other people for their beliefs or to push her beliefs onto them; they tell her to do things like pray for the country and for her neighbors, obey the law, and generally be a good citizen. I'm not sure that that's a bad thing to teach; it's material that comes right out of Romans 13 and Jeremiah 29. I'd much rather they teach that than, say, teach that all people who advocate for LGBT equality are unhinged, vindictive, easily-beatable strawmen like another radio show I know.

Put simply, what they seem to be saying is that we live in a fallen world, and using the government to enforce Christian teachings in public schools isn't going to change that. Only Jesus can do that. And for its faults, I think that the episode was trying to get at the fact that the issue runs deeper than what is or isn't allowed to be taught in schools—it's an issue of culture and society as a whole. I really don't see what the big deal is.

FWIW, I remember listening to the modesty episode, and I think it was acceptable considering its audience: prepubescent kids from relatively sheltered Christian environments. I mean, imagine if the producers had actually talked to a porn user who is trying to quit; what we would get would be far too raw and honest for the main audience.